To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

I hated people telling me to 'tell my child off'. (slightly missing the point I know)

Live and let live. You don't know what kind of day/week/year they've had or whether they 'tell them off' after playgroup or if they are struggling with PND or the kids are on the spectrum etc.

I was told at one playgroup by a mum that a) my DS 'only hit because because he was being hit' (he was NOT) b) that I should smack him (I did not).

I had a baby in the buggy, he was two and we were all exhausted, he was ermm quite lively. He's 16 now and and a perfectly normal human (mostly ).

YANBU but I think it applies to both genders. My lb & lg are encouraged to behave nicely & discouraged from being out of order. My female child is more boisterous & I’m very keen to produce considerate kids regardless of gender. I don’t think boys are more boisterous on average

It seems your main complaint is the (lack of) parenting, OP. Genuine gender differences aside, rubbish parenting by other people is a really sad reason to worry your own unborn son might be a “horrible shit”.

I have 5 DC 3 of them boys, the other 2 obviously female of the species. I have patented all my children, one of them has Autism, ADHD and global developmental delay, none of my boys are very boisterous, my girls are very bossy! When my first DS got bullied at school, he is highly intelligent and not, as school classed him ‘a typical boy’ I was told by them that he had to toughen up! Not a word was said to the little sods who made his life hell because he would rather read a book than kick a ball!

You are definitely not unreasonable. I HATE phrases like “boys will be boys” etc it’s a shitty excuse for lazy parenting. Not bringing your child up on that kind of behaviour because they have a penis is disgusting and letting down the child.

Boys and girls are different. Point out the rules to both and censure and praise accordingly. I had a nightmare physical little boy who never stopped running, shouting and being a pain. He is now a quiet, clever, funny, gentle man. My quiet girly baby daughter has grown into a feisty young woman in a much more upfront and public role than her brother.

I have to laugh at the feminist lectures I get from the DD. Wait until she has a baby and the genes 'come out'. She'll be as shocked as I was.

Both my DSs have boring middle class names and they're both lovely. So nerr ...

YANBU. There are still loads of lazy stereotypes about what is appropriate behaviour for boys and girls around - on TV, on their clothes, (and annoyingly in our heads), but I think we take them more for granted when they're about boys. When I had my DD I found lots of advice on breaking down restrictive stereotypes for girls, but once I had my DS I realised there is much less advice that does the same for the boys. They are restricted in different ways, to be macho - never cry etc, but also allowed freedoms the girls don't have - to take up more space (e.g. physically and verbally). We can only fix that if we teach both the boys and girls that they are just as good, kind, thoughtful, funny, clever (and just as naughty/boisterous/annoying) as each other.

My friend’s 3yr old son was kicking a metal rattly fence whilst we were waiting in the playground for school pick up. He kicked and kicked it until she said to me ‘what am I to do with him?’ I responded ‘you could try telling him to stop.’

Boys and girls aren’t really that different pre puberty tbh.

A lot of the difference is due to parents toy preference and how they are raised.

@M3lon I read your article and I didn't see how they derived "male" and "female" biased words. It used the example in one case of "analyse" vs " understand" (the former being supposedly male and the latter female) - I really can't see how that follows.
Talent? You think "talent" is "male biased"?

I mean that seems absurd, you really feel as a woman that the word "talent" puts you off doing something because it feels reserved for men? That is utterly bizarre to me.

Not correcting your children's bad behaviour is just bad parenting. I have known aggressive children of both sexes who are indulged or ignored; then one day the parents have a teenager who intimidates them or who kicks off royally when told, 'No' It's too late to start discipline when they're teenagers.
Mother of two boys now aged 16 & 14. Both lovely. Both never had a single behaviour detention the whole way through school, just a couple of missed homework ones.

My sons name is Benjamin - I’m offended by your comments regarding this.....perhaps get off your high horse and stop judging others so much.

I heard a mother telling her 4yo to “stop crying, you look like a little girl” and I have to say my anger at her was only diminished by my pity for him. And then I felt nothing but sadness; how can mothers of sons not see how much self loathing she must have to tell a small boy she loves it’s wrong to cry as it would be seen as “like a woman”.

Parents are one third of the problem
(or opportunity) when it comes to making (or breaking) gender stereotypes, with media and the workplace equally to blame.

Women have been taught for decades how to challenge these harmful stereotypes and I think it’s time we start teaching our sons to do the same.

And yes, the way we raise our boys will impact the way they see women, respect women, champion Women... or rape women, beat Women and murder women.

The way children are gender stereotyped from such a young age is ridiculous. I picked up DD from nursery the other day and one of the workers was telling me about how wild boys are and was giving me the whole 'you know what boys are like'. Yes, I do know what boys are like. They are just like girls at that age!! Mums at my NCT group would always go on and on about how boys play more aggressively even while their DSs were sitting quietly on their laps and DD was causing mayhem right in front of their eyes. It seriously makes my blood boil how people keep enforcing these stereotypes with all the terrible consequences they have for both girls and boys.

If half the boys behave themselves what do you put that down to OP? Having a 'name that would make MN members raise an eyebrow'? What a load of tosh.

Two of the worst bullies in my DS year are girls. They get away with it because, if they are caught they simper - 'we didn't realise', 'we're so sorry' then carry on in exactly the same way. One of the mums says her daughter is 'assertive'. I say she's a little brat and if my DS behaved like that he'd be told off in no uncertain terms. Oddly enough though she has a traditional name so maybe you're on to something.

Or maybe it's because, like the riotous boys in your playgroup, the girls parents haven't got a clue how to make their kids become kind members of society.

'I heard a mother telling her 4yo to “stop crying, you look like a little girl” and I have to say my anger at her was only diminished by my pity for him'

Awful, isn't it? Some people have no empathy for their own children. I heard a mum barking 'be strong! Boys don't cry!' at her sobbing toddler one day. Such damaging lessons on so many levels

Absolutely agree with bookmum!

'Yes, I do know what boys are like. They are just like girls at that age!'

Well said

Honeypot1
its time we start teaching our sons the same

Completely agree. If just teaching the girls that they are equal to the boys was enough, we’d have fixed this already. All children need to know they are all equal - not just half of them.

I think it’s essentially lazy parenting.

We had 6 kids, 4 boys and 2 girls and they were pretty well similar as toddlers except people called the boys ‘spirited’and girls ‘divas’ exhibiting the exact same behaviour.

Said many times by posters on this thread

Are the boys really more boisterous? Or do you just notice them more now you're expecting one? My dd is much more boisterous than my ds. I have noticed that some toddlers are more rough than others in their play, but I haven't noticed lots of little boys behaving like thugs while the girls do as they're told.

I know exactly what you mean. However, I’ve always told my two boys off if they behave like entitled little shits. My eldest is 16 now and an absolute delight. My youngest is nearly 4. He can be a horrorbags at times, but I don’t let him get away with it and he is learning cause/consequence. The type of kids you are referring to are just a byproduct of damn lazy parenting. But that’s just my opinion. I’m sure there will be plenty who yell “SN, autism” or whatever at me - but I’m aunt to 2 SN/autistic/adhd children and niece of a SN adult plus friends of many with SN/autistic kids and none of them are or have been allowed to behave in such a way either.

I agree although I don’t know if it’s always ‘bad’ parenting. Many parents believe and reinforce the gender stereotypes. They only way they will change if other people challenge them. When my oldest DD was a toddler a friend with a son would say I was so lucky to have a well behaved girl rather than a boy who behaved like a monkey. I found it infuriating that she thought my parenting did not play any part in my DD’s behaviour! She did believe that boys behave was preterminded.