To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

If your child grows up to be a horrible little shit, you need to question your parenting. My3 yo isn't one, neither is my 19 yo nephew because they weren't raised to be horrible little shits.

yes anecdotally I'd say the boys in my friendship group are livelier but who knows which ones of our kids will be book works or pro footballers one day. Mine isis certainly a hyper crazy person but that doesn't entitle him to be a horrid little shit and it can't all be attributed to his XY chromosomes

The "confident little boy" vs "bossy little girl" label for basically the same behaviours really sets the scene I think

Equally as bad is the ‘big bad boy’ and ‘precious little snowflake girl’ attitude. An insult to both and I’ve seen it as a mum and as a teacher.
I am so happy mine are in single sex education now!

I feel very sad for your little boy who's mother has a sexist hateful attitude like yours.
To label him a possible little shit is disgusting.
I could say a lot more but I am so angry at your attitude I feel best to leave it there.

die the answer to this is not in the difference in gender equality but in the difference in gendering of the subjects in question.

India is a good example for stem. Horrible horrible gender equality record, but produces as many if not more female theoretical physicist than male.

The difference is that physics isn't considered a male biased study in India. In fact very few places in the world have the same level of bias we do in the UK. It is because we place massive emphasis on the need for 'talent' to be good at science, and talent/brilliance are male biased indicators. Places like India don't treat physics any differently to history of art in terms of the work v. talent bias.

So there are jobs in India that are 100% gender segregated...much worse than the UK, but science isn't one of them.

The fact that the jobs that are locally selected for gender segregation vary from country to country is yet another indicator that these biases are learned not innate.

Well, I 1/2 agree and I 1/2 don't.

My son is 2 and is so different from dd (6). He is more boisterous and has more energy. Dd at the same age would sit and play with her toys whereas ds just doesn't.

Boys by nature are different, how you treat them however doesn't have to be. He gets told off and asked to behave just as dd did. I do treat them differently as they are different.

Shit parents are shit parents. It's the kids I feel sorry for 😢

Regrettably, I think quite a few parents bring their kids up with this sense of entitlement, irrespective of gender. I used to run a toddler group and some kids were just allowed to get away with bad behaviour like snatching toys, hitting smaller children etc. We had a discretionary upper age limit to weed them out aged three, as they were just so much bigger and more horrible. Don't fret that your boy will be like that. He'll be polite and well mannered because you'll bring him up to be. Some kids are naughtier than others though, so you might have got lucky first time!

YANBU. Boys will be boys held accountable for their actions.

I hate the way some parents talk about boys - little shits etc. My DS (4.5) is so boisterous and he doesn't listen and likes to show off in front of people by generally being disobedient but he's not an example of toxic masculinity. I look after a little girl same age and she is treated with kid gloves by her parents but loves getting physical with my DS given half the chance. Encourage a decent relationship with your DS where you show your vulnerabilities and how his actions have an affect on you and others and he will be a decent human being. The blueprint for men is their relationship with their mothers but mothers need to be able to go to a play group and not be judged for their parenting when they are probably just looking for a bit of respite and support.

CanineEnigma

YANBU. Boys will be boys held accountable for their actions.

That’s a disturbing post. They are toddlers not grown criminal men

YANBU! I remember feeling the same when my dcs were small (teens now). A group of domineering, self centered 7yr old boys were proudly described as 'alpha males' by their dms. I was shocked as it seemed to me the boys were simply undisciplined and hadn't been encouraged to be empathetic.

Don't worry about your ds - you are already thinking about the issues so will be well prepared. Already having a dd may help (it did in my case) as you can try to bring him us as you have her. My ds was very boisterous so physically harder work but I put a lot of effort into ensuring he had awareness of the world around him and respect for other people. He is still very energetic and exhausting but he also kind and empathetic - and there are lots of boys like him.

Siblings of course also influence each other - one of the joys of having teen dd and ds is the conversations they have about equality, gender roles etc.

So don't worry.

I generally do think boys are more energetic than girls. We can also flip this as a lot of parents will say girls are gentle, more patient, bratty, bitchy etc. In the teenage years a lot of parents say girls are more challenging.
I don’t think it’s because ‘boys have too much energy’ I think it’s more to do with mums mollycoddling boys too much, which I am guilty of.
I do think you are stereotyping too much. My girls are boisterous, energetic and run riot, which I address but my boy is calm and chilled.

I disagree Kappa. Poor behaviour is so often excused in boys as “boys being boys”. Personally, I choose to raise my son to be respectful of those around him - thereby making him responsible for his actions.

I think this is less to do with boys and more to do with lazy parents, the fact that they are boys is coincidental. If they had girls they'd be the same but use some other excuse not to bother parenting.

I have experienced this but with both sexes, just parents being generally shit. Your boy will be lovely, don't worry!

(I have 2 DDs and pregnant with a boy)

I have a boy and a girl. My girl is beautifully behaved and always has been. I was strict with her and she always responded well to reasoning and explanation. My boy on the other hand is WILD!! I have been the same with both. Same up bringing, same rules, same dad etc but he does not respond to explanations or reasoning. In fact he doesn't respond to much - I have very little control (although I would say he is getting better). I do try to stop him and I do not use his gender as an excuse for anything but you may find when you have your boy he will be a totally different temperament and you will probably find yourself being more and more 'embarrassed' by behaviour.
In my sons defence he is not at all boisterous - in fact quite the opposite. He doesn't like confrontation at all. However he will just keep running and not stop - his wild side truly is about his energy levels.

I took my now 3 year old to a playgroup where the v nice hippy parents were a little well feckless. Letting children play alone and fall off see-saw. At this point I felt best to stop attending or I'd laugh and point. (Inner Nelson Muntz).

YANBU to find gendered explanations of young children's behaviour to be inappropriate.

YABU to implicitly present your own way of handling your child as the model for what any right thinking person should do.

Probably crazy hormones is the best explanation for the thing about the names!

I think a lot of it is down to parenting really, there will be entitled girls as much as there are boys.
I do agree somewhat though about the behaviours being tolerated different within stereotypes (the sassy for a girl vs. Assertive for a boy rings true for us).

@haribosmarties what a horrible hateful post.

My 3 year old boy is a nightmare. He won't sit and play quietly. He's very loud, runs, shouts, doesn't snatch but shares, doesn't listen to me. Hope you're ready for your BOY op!!

Tbh I help run a playgroup in quite a poor area and never seen this but tbh at ours we, as helpers, would tell off children who do this if parents didn’t.

My son never stopped moving even in utero. Almost seven years on he’s the same. Part of him.

@user1472151176 I have the complete opposite experience to you. I was strict with daughter and she’s very difficult. I was a lot more laid back with my son and he’s an angel.
Seeing all these experiences seems like a bit of a nature vs nurture argument. We may have limited control over nature but we do control the nurture side.

Totally agree. It’s the old “boys will be boys” attitude

The parents need to check the behaviour of their children, whatever the gender. You cant blame a specific gender for their parenting shortfalls. My niece is an absolute nightmare and an embarrassment whenever they go out. She makes mine two look like absolute saints, which they are not.