To think that the way people treat male toddlers....

[Yellowcrocodile]

Is what leads to male entitlement in society?

Name changed for this as potentially identifying.

So I have a 2 year old DD and am currently pregnant with a boy.

Spent the morning at a playgroup in a naice area. I’ve come home feeling furious by the behaviour of some of the children and their parents. Basically there were a few boys 3+ who absolutely ran riot, screaming, running, shouting, snatching and hitting, and generally causing chaos. Their parents just smiled indulgently, and made comments like ‘boys have so much more energy’. None of them told their children off, apologised to anyone or acknowledged that their children were badly misbehaving.

It’s like this every fucking week. My daughter has her naughty moments too, snatches, tantrums etc, but as soon as she starts I tell her off (calmly), explain why she can’t do xyz, and say we are leaving if she carries on. She generally responds and behaves herself, and I’m very embarrassed if she doesn’t, as I have high expectations of her. Almost all of the other girls and half of the boys are the same, not perfect little angels but parented appropriatley and respond to boundaries.

It’s making me worried that when I have my son:
a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

These children are never told off, and their sense of entitlement is growing by the day. This is probably hormones talking, but I can completely see how some men end up not doing any housework, feeling entitled to the best of everything, and go around raping and murdering people, as they are told from an early age that any behaviour is fine as they ‘have more energy’ and they just aren’t held to normal standards of behaviour.

Also, they all seem to be call very boring middle class names like william, Samuel and Benjamin, don’t know what that’s about? The children with names that would raise a mumsnet eyebrow are much better behaved.

So, AIBU to blame toxic masculinity and male entitlement on the tolerance we have for poor behaviour from boys in childhood?!

Or are hormones making me crazy...

I’m determined not to treat my son any differently to my daughter for both of their sakes, but feel really sad about the society they will both be growing up in

Badly behaved children of both sex are almost always a result of lazy parents. They sit around at toddlers/ playgroups and let their children run riot because it’s to much bother to work at being a parent. As a parent of 3 boys and 1girl and a childminder of lots and lots of children I can honestly say it wasn’t the children that gave me problems but a few of the parents. All of the children learnt very quickly what I considered acceptable behaviour and what wasn’t. Consistency, and no means no was the rule but a few overly entitled parents thought that it didn’t apply to their children. Over the years I’ve seen a big increase in this type of parent and I do worry that they are producing a generation of overly entitled children. I don’t condone smacking but do feel action have consequences and if they aren’t made to face that from a young age it is much harder to accept when they get older.

My sister and I had our 1st babies within 7 months of each other, When my sister was pregnant with her 2nd child she refused to find out what sex it was because “if it’s a boy I’ll be devastated because I’ve seen how badly behaved (undiagnosed ADHD at the time) sons name is! And I couldn’t cope with that!!
I was devastated she felt the need to tell me that

The paradigm isn't that children are a blank canvas, its that children are a slightly textured canvas with slightly different properties for boys and girls (ON AVERAGE - you'll find many girls canvases indistinguishable from boy canvases and vice versa) and then you paint all over that subtle difference in canvas with pure pink glittery shit on one and a pure blue monster truck themes on the other.

The fact people then stand back and attribute the difference in the final artworks to the subtle canvas difference, rather than the massively different use of materials/colours just shows how mad people are.

I think this is bang on. ^

Also the problem with this Almost every culture has ideas about what are male and female traits- and they're generally pretty similar across time and space is that most cultures/societies are patriarchal and have always been.

confidence is also on the list for male biased.

If it's based in research why not link that instead of a polemical site website?

Well when I went to pick my children up from school, I saw a poor lad getting bullied on the way home (all year 6 kids). He was really tall. The group of bullies were a mix of boys and girls but the main perpetrator was a girl. She was absolutely vile towards him and I almost told her to fuck off and leave him alone.
I rang school and they knew exactly who I was on about. Little bitch was half the size of him.

There are statistical, biological differences between males and females behaviourally and in terms of abilities. However there is a huge amount of overlap so while the differences are obvious over large populations it doesn't say a great deal about any one individual.

That said I've seen parents both be over indulgent to unequivocally bad behaviour. I've also seen parents (and this is more of older children) step in much too quickly to stop rough play (where no one is in danger of being seriously hurt) or to interfere in situations where the children could have resolved conflict themselves.

die good grief lazy much? It was only one click from the page I gave you and I thought you might want to play with the site a bit...

gender-decoder.katmatfield.com/static/documents/Gaucher-Friesen-Kay-JPSP-Gendered-Wording-in-Job-ads.pdf

PitterPatter - totally agree.

I’d just worry that your son-to-be is going be brought up by someone who hates males.

It’s a hell of a leap from “being a twat in playgroup” to raping and murdering.

I think it's down to parenting... My boy is one of those. He is given warning then we leave if necessary. He IS full of energy, mire than I remember my girls having, but that's no excuse for poor behaviour.

don't agree. I have both a girl and a boy and my boy is ramped up and a handful, I try my best but it is very hard to rein him in...not all boys are like this but mine is. He's now 9 yrs old and hip thrusting and very revved up...sigh..

Yeah. I was really strict on people who try to pull that gender stereotyping around my DC. 'Boys will be boys.' 'Girls are better at socialising.' Blah, blah. All that nonsense got quickly squashed in my house.

I do think that boys in general are more boisterous, mine are.

They need strong parenting, and many parents just are not up to it. They think you negotiate, when toddlers need clarity and immediate consequences.

I left a few toddler groups, despite having the most hyperactive and boisterous child, because the other parents were letting their kids go crazy. I was having to tell not only my own child off but all the others. I am constantly teaching my son, and as a result my oldest boy is extremely considerate and kind now. It’s hard work but worth it.

YABU.

t’s making me worried that when I have my son: a. He’ll be a horrible little shit
b. I’m turn into one of the terrible parents who attribute his poor behaviour to ‘being boisterous’ or ‘naturally having more energy’

Seriously you need to rethink this attitude. Boys can be wonderful as can girls. Boys can be naughty as can girls.
It sounds like there were a bunch of naughty kids who happened to be boys.

YANBU I have a toddler boy and im very worried about him starting school and being influenced by this type of 'masculinity' Some parents think its natural that their young sons hit and bite and run around being incredibly aggressive... Some young boys are more energetic than girls in general but as a parent you have a duty to make sure that that is being directed in a certain way... not into terrorising other children!

For example in the par the other day my son was making an aeroplane out of sticks and some little twat of a similar age came up and started trying to convince him it was a gun and encourage him to chase after other children pretending to shoot them... my son doesnt even know what a gun is so was just confused.... this other boys parents just smiled on indulgently like it was cute or something
Yes girls can be just as energetic but generally violence and/or aggression isnt tolerated and even sometimes praised in the same way as it is for boys

Um I’m the mum of two boys- both gorgeous (obviously!) and incredibly polite. My youngest kept saying sorry on the school run today because he thought he was hurting my hand by holding it! He’s not even 2...

The kind of behaviour you described I wouldn’t tolerate for a moment, I’d pack up and go home. They’re being raised not as males with entitlement but as children with respect for others. If people use the ‘male entitlement’ thing just because they see a few boys getting away with crap behaviour that could (and should) be nipped in the bud fast, how is that any different to little suzie being a ‘diva’ because she’s overtired and has a cry?

I don’t categorise kids full stop. I see them for themselves, their own weird and wonderful personality quirks (my youngest will eat baby wipes for breakfast lunch and tea if you let him 🤷🏻‍♀️)

I fully admit to being lazy M3lon, which is why before I take the time to read the article (I will) I want to ask why you think that the more egalitarian a country is the less women do stereotypically male jobs such as science, mathematics and engineering?

Yanbu my son is 18 months a very sweet caring little boy, his sister is 3 very dominant and carefree. My brother is 3 he is rude, breaks everything in sight when he cannot get his own way, pees and poos wherever he likes. It's down to the parenting 100% on children as to why they behave in this way.
My mum excuses his behaviour as "he's just a little boy" no he's a toddler who behaves like a total fuckwit and gets away with it as it's your last kid aaargh.

Hmmm I don't know if this is the minority or majority though? Sounds like bad parenting rather than the norm?
Mine are both at school now so a little older, my girl is 8 and my boy is 5 and I do notice the difference naturally in their personalities. Girl is very academic, headstrong, opinionated (never wrong!) fiercely independent (was like this from being tiny, people used to say she was "highly strung" and was always prone to mega tantrums as a toddler... never snatched or got boisterous with other children though at that age she would usually play alone or with an adult. She's not very empathetic towards others (e.g. if she sees someone upset she'd roll her eyes & leave them to it. Wanted to be a nurse when she was older then decided it wasn't for her because she doesn't care about people enough! - her words!)

Boy is far more laid back (again was as a baby, slept and ate and not really much else for the first 5 months!), he's very placid, has far more patience than his big sister with things and doesn't get upset or annoyed if he can't do something. He's very sensitive towards others feelings (he saw a kid crying on his first day at school so went and put his arm round him and tried to make him laugh by pulling silly faces) he's a simple soul who is happiest outside in a puddle with a stick... BUT he's also a complete nutter with his friends. They can get very boisterous, start hitting/ play fighting and being silly. Obviously I tell him off if he gets OTT and he'll always apologise and say sorry, if he's actually caused upset to anyone he'll usually do something nice to try and make them feel better like bring them a toy or offer cuddles - he hates to see people sad! (This is something DD would never do, she hates apologising and if she is made to you can tell it's through gritted teeth! 😂)

Basically what I'm saying is there's a definite difference in their personality. That may be down to their gender or it might have nothing to do with it but I'm not sure the example you've given is what leads to rape and murder 😳
Out of mine if either was going to commit heinous crimes I'd put my money on DD - she's far more cold and calculated!

I’d just worry that your son-to-be is going be brought up by someone who hates males.

I wasn’t brave enough to write this but I agree with you

I’ve never noticed this.

My DD (5) was always more boisterous and rough and tumble in character than DS (2). He is far more gentle and easy going - I dreaded taking her to groups but he is much easier. I parent them both exactly the same!

Okay, you know how if you suddenly tried to play an hour of football having not done much exercise for years, you would find it really tough after about 10 minutes...but if you've been training daily for the last year you wouldn't struggle?

The reason boys have more energy than girls is because girls are more likely to have had their exercise curbed early on. Boys have been less likely to have their exercise curbed early on and hence are fitter on average as a result.

There are plenty of research papers that demonstrate the differential in the way carers will interfere more in girls physical activity than in boys, and the direct relationship between this and physical fitness and ability as the children grow older.

Op. Literally step away from the computer.

So you think if your son grows into a “little shit” (nice!!) he’s going to grow up raping and murdering people do you?! Wow.

I assume your also going to call your “little shit” leaf or something if William and Samual aren’t up your street? You have the freedom to decide?

What a weird and frankly disturbing post.

Oh and just to add my girl too gets bonkers and giddy, also likes puddles and gets told off just the same for the same offences!