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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Or is my mother??

237 replies

rosesandflowers1 · 08/07/2018 19:27

Summer holidays we had a family holiday planned (DH, DD1, DS, DD2 and I, along with my parents) to go to a caravan park or Center Parcs or something. They left planning very late but that's not the point... now they want to go abroad, France or Spain my mother is saying.

DD1 is terrified of flying, she hated planes anyway and always insisted something bad was going to happen on holidays... it was just anxiety and she always loved it once we got there, but at the time she needs lots of reassurance and on the two holidays that my parents have been there they've been dickheads very misunderstanding about it on the plane.

Last year DD had a seizure abroad and got diagnosed with epilepsy; essentially, the bad thing happened. Now she's flat out refusing to go abroad and I don't blame her. I don't really think booking an overseas holiday in so little advance makes sense either.

My parents seem to think it's about cost Hmm It's not. My mother says she'll pay, we don't need her to, and then she got cross and said I was too proud. I reaffirmed this was about DD and that DH or I would have to stay home with her so it wouldn't really be a family holiday.

She said it was our fault for "giving in" to her fear. Now she went whining to my aunt about my selfishness and that DH puts me up to it, apparently Hmm

I'm pretty sure I'm not BU about the last part; but should have I just caved and booked an abroad holiday and forced DD to go? It's been a hugely chaotic couple of months - year, really - for DD especially, and she's just getting better. I don't think it would be fair to do that, but my mother as always has put doubt into my head.

Help?

OP posts:
rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 11:34

Ignore your awful mother and your horrible aunt. You don’t have to answer their calls and messages, you don’t have to justify yourself to them, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to.

I might write this out too!

OP posts:
rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 11:36

Oh also as the daughter of someone who always put her own mother (my grandmother) first to the detriment of me and my siblings, I think it's great that you're putting your unwell daughter first.

Thank you, Lisabel.

I definitely put my mother before myself all through my childjood. Seeing her being nasty to my child, rather than me, snapped me out of it a little, I think - my mum did have a longlasting emotional impact on me and I don't want that to happen with DD.

OP posts:
StatisticallyChallenged · 10/07/2018 11:44

It was similar for me OP - I'd tolerate a lot when it was directed at me but as soon as I saw it coming in DD's direction (not as bad as your mum yet as DD is younger) it was like something snapped and I knew I needed to protect her more than I needed to keep my mum happy.

rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 11:58

It does trigger something, doesn't it?

I think because it was normalised in me for a young age, by the time I was really old enough to stick up for myself I barely noticed it.

OP posts:
rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 13:31

My father rang me to tell me that my mother was very worried about me Hmm and they want to come round later, and that he wants to speak to DH.

The lengths she's going to are so ridiculous and out of proportion. I daresay my mother's told him her version of the story, but I bet she missed out all of the vile texts - that at least I have proof of!

I told my dad no way can it happen today - by the time DH is home all the DC will be, and they can't meet just with me either because DD1 is home. He asked me when I was free and I said I'd get back to him, and I shouldn't have because I can hardly put it off forever!

This has escalated so massively I almost wish I just went to Spain, but at the same time I know I had to draw a line at some point.

Has anybody got any experience/advice? When I was a kid my mum always told my dad her version and he believed her, I don't want it to be a reincarnation of this. It would probably end in a massive fight and me and my dad's relationship being damaged because I have no intention of not putting up a fight this time!

OP posts:
WhiteWalkerWife · 10/07/2018 13:38

Can you email your dad the truth? I would tell him to read it, that your mum is damaging to your daughter and you have no intention of discussing it.

rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 13:43

Yes - a text doesn't really seem able to convey the full scale of things, but I really don't want a meeting either. An email sounds good. Thanks!

OP posts:
DingDongDenny · 10/07/2018 13:51

I would meet your dad on his own

rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 13:58

I don't know if he'd come without my mother, he seems really worried about her and wants to put her mind at rest apparently. To be fair I can imagine she's acting absolutely mad at home.

DH says he's happy to talk to my dad and I think he'd be very happy to talk to my mum. I'm really worried if she comes it will turn into a big argument.

Honestly an email sounds really good - but also a bit like I'm scared or backing out, and I do feel somewhat obliged to explain to my dad. Maybe a quick meet-up somewhere? If it's in public she'll probably be afraid to make a scene and we can do it before the DC get home if it's tomorrow (DH works half-days on Wednesdays.)

OP posts:
StatisticallyChallenged · 10/07/2018 13:58

I'd do a calm email to your dad (if he has an email address your mum can't access, so much the better as you want to know HE got it) then you can decide based on his response whether you want to meet.

However...if your mum is a narc (sounds like it) writing a letter/email to her will put you on the fast track to nowhere. It'll just give her something to wave around like a victim, and to probably write a very selective reply to. Been there, done that...

Zippetydoodahzippetyay · 10/07/2018 14:00

Definitely get her counsellor to talk about the fear of flying. The best way to overcome a fear is to do the thing you're afraid of, but counsellor can advise her how to build up to flying in a slow but achievable way. Just leaping into it for this trip probably isnt ideal. She needs strategies and to build up to it. Its a very common phobia but can really limit opportunities in the future.

StatisticallyChallenged · 10/07/2018 14:03

Oh and your mum is probably behaving like a crazy person at home at the moment (hence your dad's reaction) - look up narcissistic injury and narcissistic rage

rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 14:08

Will do, Zippety, her counsellor seems very good so hopefully he will be able to help her.

He doesn't have an email address she doesn't know the password to, so I guess that idea is scrapped Sad I'll agree on a meet-up some time tomorrow.

I'll look them up! The narcissism mother stuff was so accurate I was shocked.

OP posts:
Zippetydoodahzippetyay · 10/07/2018 16:16

I've just finished reading the rest of the thread and want to say well done on standing up for yourself and your daughter. Even if you dont end up sending it, drafting an email sounds like a great way to plan what you want to say, how to get your message across etc so that if you do have it out in person, you dont end up all to gue tied and overpowered by them. Good luck.

rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 16:36

Preparing a response seems quite a good idea, I'm one of those people who's much better on paper than they are not.

I'm trying to guess what tale my mother could come up with to explain this but I just don't know, so I think just making sure I know how to tell what really happened is key. I'll also have DH to support me so praying that all goes well Flowers

OP posts:
StatisticallyChallenged · 10/07/2018 17:16

I agree, properly preparing is really helpful.

In terms of her likely explanations, may I point you to the narcissists prayer? Tends to be fiendishly accurate with mine!

Roughly translated to your situation...

"I didn't bully you/DD, nothing I said was nasty. I just want a nice family holiday and you're ruining it
It wasn't half as bad as you're making out I was just having a discussion with you/DD
Stop being dramatic, it's nothing to be angry over
It's not my fault you're pandering to your DD/Your DD is oversensitive
You both deserved it for being ridiculous"

The other classic is DARVO - Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender; "I didn't do anything wrong, you're being an awful bully who doesn't care about me and your husband is abusive, I'm the hard done by one here because you won't go on holiday and now you won't talk to me either"

Or is my mother??
rosesandflowers1 · 10/07/2018 17:55

Thank you Statistically, that was really helpful.

I think I'll try and think of some responses to all of those claims besides the actual version of what happened!

DH has told me he'll tell me the rest of what she said later. He's being very shifty and keeps avoiding the conversation, I can only imagine what my mother said to him because this is not him at all Sad

DD1 is feeling much better though she did ask me if Grandma called again. I said not since last night and she won't be coming on holiday. She's very happy and, to a lesser extent, so are DS and DD2.

OP posts:
mummmy2017 · 10/07/2018 18:43

Keep saying while mum has a point I need to put my child's mental health first.

Yes I understand mum wants us there but I need to place my child's needs ahead of anything else..

I know mum is sad about not being together this holiday but me and DH feel a quiet holiday will be best for our family.

StatisticallyChallenged · 10/07/2018 18:43

Sounds like she was suitably awful if he won't discuss!

Your dad is different, but if you see and discuss with your mum then it's worth thinking about how she tends to respond to being challenged and what you want to achieve. It's very easy to get in to a pattern of trying to justify/explain your own actions and defending yourself and if you do she will quite probably start running rings around you. Try to keep the focus on what she has done and why it's not acceptable.

So, you could say "I don't think it's the right time to push DD in to going away" bla bla, to which she will inevitably respond with "but you're pandering to her" and suddenly you're in the position of arguing about your parenting choices. The conversation is focused on the decision not her behaviour IYSWIM?

Alternatively, you can take a stance that is much more about her and how she trampled boundaries e.g. "I told you clearly that we would not be going abroad this year. You ignored me and refused to accept my decision, then you called DD and tried to bully her. This isn't your choice to make and your behaviour isn't acceptable"
"You're pandering bla bla..."
"What you think is irrelevant. It's not your choice to make."

Neither is likely to lead to an epiphany from her Grin but the latter might be more productive in terms of curbing the behaviour.

rosesandflowers1 · 11/07/2018 11:59

Thank you both for your suggestions about dealing with this talk Flowers I guess discussing it is better all round than leaving it as a text message if it goes well

It turns out she eventually tried to "bargain" with DH about how he treats me Hmm I'm not sure exactly what that means but I can imagine it contained some horrible implications about me and our relationship which is why he's being so vague about it.

I'll let you know how it goes Smile

OP posts:
SpandexTutu · 11/07/2018 12:09

As long as you make it clear to your DD that your DM was out of order and you have her back, she'll be fine.
She's old enough to understand that not everybody is kind.
But I'm cheering you on for standing up to your DM. Well done!

rosesandflowers1 · 11/07/2018 16:42

Sorry I didn't update sooner but my thoughts have been a bit disordered.

My dad wanted to talk to DH because my mother had been going on about him abusing me, and naturally my father was concerned. DH just asked my mother which behaviour of his she'd characterise as abusive. As I said, she knows next to nothing - so she squirmed a bit and just said he has a lot of control in the house as the provider, and that clearly he's been abusing it as he's stopped me from talking to her.

DH replied that I could make his life just as difficult by pulling out of everything I do around the house and that neither one of us has "power" over the other. But, more importantly, he said that he hasn't stopped me talking to my mum at all, and that everything that's happened has been my decision.

My father was clearly pissed at this. What the hell I was playing at, she raised me, she loved me etc.

I said I had children to raise and love and had to put them first, and if my mother is incapable of conducting herself safely around her grandchildren then I have to protect them. My dad asked what I was talking about; he didn't know about the phone call!

She pulled a lovely 'shock' face and then essentially insisted my DD was making it up as an elaborate ruse to get out of the holiday. My dad said that we'd have to discipline DD for dishonesty, DH said we would no such thing as she wasn't lying!

My mother said she was. I pointed out some key incidents from my childhood in which I'd been accused of doing similar when my mother had behaved inappropriately - and punished for it. Besides, I'd picked DD up in total shreds so I find it very hard to believe that nothing had happened to her. My mum had also definitely called her about something, it says so on DD's phone!

She then backtracked and said she had called her, but just to check all was okay and as she was very oversensitive she had gotten upset, not because my mother was purposely trying to upset her.

Obviously at that point it became clear she was lying as she had previously denied the existence of a phone call, as DH pointed out. She tried to offer some more explanations like DD had got a friend to do it for her etc., and changed the contact name Hmm DH said but you admitted you called her.

She then insisted I was being confrontational before it even happened, my dad said I'd upset my mother very much and I said she'd upset me! And showed him the texts. She said she hadn't sent them and showed us her phone (texts deleted of course) and it was the contact name thing again, so I read out the contact number.

My dad looked quite shocked, my mother spat at DH! She said he'd clearly got me very well trained, and then went into this rant about blaming herself for me being so stupid and weak etc. Other people in the café could hear her and it was very nasty so my dad told her to be quiet and they ended up having their own mini argument.

At last my dad said (to me) that my mum had been inappropriate but it was just out of worry and maybe her MH isn't what it used to be. I said it was exactly as it used to be and now that I had kids of my own LC was the only option, and my parents wouldn't be coming on the holiday.

My mum kicked off to the level she was asked to leave, so we left too. My dad said he would call tonight to talk to me alone.

I'm feeling very confused and disordered about it all still, it keeps replaying in my head. My mum looked positively unhinged and my dad found it do easy to believe all her lies. I get that you might believe your wife over a teenager, but how could he believe her crazy explanations over the truth?

I've got to try to get my head in shape before tonight, DH said he's happy to be there with me on FaceTime or something but my dad did say alone. I'm not sure if he just meant without my mother. This is just all so ridiculous. It's a bloody holiday and she's somehow turned it into this.

OP posts:
mummmy2017 · 11/07/2018 18:01

Keep telling your dad right now you have to put your child first, and you know he needs to put his wife first, so the best solution is to have your own holiday, you won't be changing your mind of this point and your dad has to accept that..

zzzzz · 11/07/2018 18:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StatisticallyChallenged · 11/07/2018 18:13

He's been believing what she says for years, or at least not disagreeing to keep the peace most likely. Plus narcs can be very convincing liars - they almost convince themselves it's true, and that they are the victim. She almost certainly genuinely believes she is hard done by here.

You've done the hardest bit by standing up to her; now you just need to define your boundaries and stick to them.