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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be offended?

175 replies

RoyalSchmuck · 05/07/2018 20:06

I work in a very male orientated career, and I am one of two females in a team of 8 other men. Due to sickness / annual leave / meetings etc there was only me and two of the males on the team left in our department, but only myself who could do a certain task (only myself and another colleague, shall call him Y, can do this certain task).

Male colleague (shall call him B) comes over and asks if colleague Y is available to do said task. He is speaking to the guys and they say “no, but Royal over there can do it”. B glances my way and responds to them “well, when will Y be back?”

They say they don’t know and to speak to me, as they were busy with helping someone else. I smile at B and ask if I can help. He spares me another glance and again addresses the guys to say “can you ask Y to give me a call when he gets back?”

Which at this point, one of them gives him a funny look, stands and comes to stand by me and says “Royal can do it. Just let her know what you need.”

B (not looking at me but my Male team mate) responds “It’s fine. When Y gets back just tell him to pop over yeah?”

So I jokey say “why what’s wrong with me doing it?” But B doesn’t respond, to which my male colleague repeats my question. Still not looking at me he sort of shrugged and said “If you won’t pass on my message I’ll just message Y myself then.”

He walks away.

Male colleague is a bit confused by the whole thing, saying B was out of order and pointing out how uncomfortable he was that B didn’t even properly look at me. I ask whether I have some reputation I might not know about as a sort of embarrassed joke and he says none he’s heard and he’s just as genuinely baffled as I am.

Y returns from meeting, reads email from B and fowards it to me asking if I can help B as he’s busy with some work, CC’ing in B to the email. I explain what happened to Y and he rolls his eyes and goes “I wondered why he always privately messages me to do [said task], even when I tell him I’m busy with other stuff.”

The guys who were there then chip in and say it must be a religious thing and I shouldn’t worry about it.

I responded to the email and let B know I’ll work on the task. He responded by replying to colleague Y (but not me!!! Y had to tell me) “It’s fine if you’re busy Y I can wait.”

AIBU to feel a little offended? I’d understand if it was because Y did a better job etc but the task is one no one can do better than someone else, just a standard outcome. Myself and Y were hired at the same time and through talking with him at dinner it seems this certain colleague has made a comment before in passing that he doesn’t think “women should be working” and is known to be very very religious person. B works in an all-Male team and Y and co speculated that I may be the only female he comes across in our office simply because he needs said task by me and Y, and therefore he doesn’t need to interact with women any other time.

This might be so, but it doesn’t stop me feeling a bit offended!

I really, really want to raise this with HR but everyone says I should drop it, as it’s one ignorant person and in the long run I don’t interact with them at all (only time i would is for this task, which apparently B always asks Y to do anyway).

I just can’t believe it, nothing like this has ever happened to me before and I’m not sure if my shock is making me see this is as something bigger than it is, as no one else seems to think it’s a big deal?

Colleague who has the interaction, while agrees B was super rude, also is on side with everyone else that I should just leave it be and ignore B if I ever see him going forward.

Confused
OP posts:
UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 06/07/2018 12:51

Just tell him you identify as a man at work. Problem solved Wink

timeisnotaline · 06/07/2018 13:19

I’d love to have y ask him to come over for some question related to the task , include you and when he ignores you you can say to him it’s ok I’m not menstruatign right now. And repeat every time he asks y to do it.
But that’s just daydreaming , report to hr

Inkstainedmags · 06/07/2018 13:47

It's easy for a bunch of men to say don't rock the boat - they are never going to be in your shoes. It is unacceptable for B to be discriminating against you for having a vagina. You may be willing to suck it up but what about the next woman B has to work with? What if he moves into a role where he has the power to promote, hire or fire employees and some woman's career gets derailed because his behaviour is swept under the rug?

I think anyone would understand if you chose not to take any action. Just know that nothing is ever going to change until men like this are called to account for their regressive attitudes.

longwayoff · 06/07/2018 14:39

When I started work there was no equal pay (Why? Well men have families to look after dear), being groped by random men on public transport, in public places - cinema, anywhere you had to queue, church even - was so comnonplace it wasnt worth mentioning and a woman couldnt get a mortgage without a male guarantor. Tried to get a cup of coffee after ten at night at Marble Arch wimpy cafe. Please leave we cannot serve unaccompanied women after ten oclock. So . . . We have progressed since, then. Women are permitted autonomy. Please don't let this regressive view of women go unaddressed.

AngelsSins · 06/07/2018 15:12

araiwa stop being so over dramatic, no one has suggested storming into HR all guns blazing.

Going to HR to raise an issue, is the professional response to this situation. It is not up to women, people of colour, gay people, disabled people or anyone else, to protect dickheads from the consequences of their ignorance or prejudice.

Cath2907 · 06/07/2018 15:17

I would report this to HR. This sounds like the crazy sort of thing that comes back to bite your bum at a later date. I wouldn't say that you think it is because the person in question has religious issues just that it appears that they have an issue with you - possibly because you are female and leave it at that. HR can log it and your back is covered in case this becomes an issue in future.
No you can't refuse to do the thing if this colleague is eventually reduced to asking you - a mere woman - to do something in the workplace! But you can feel justifiably annoyed and smug!

Graphista · 06/07/2018 17:29

araiwa - except it IS causing problems, it's directly affecting the smooth running of the business, creating an uncomfortable atmosphere not just for op but her colleagues, and as plenty of pps have mentioned - wtf would this idiot do if a female were allocated to his team? Or if he becomes responsible for hiring/managing? No - his outdated, misogynistic cultural/religious ideology is impacting on others ILLEGALLY that needs addressing.

Hr is not the 'nuclear' option - this type of thing is exactly what they're for.

Joint email - I can see this guy still objecting to that because he doesn't want to deal with a woman AT ALL. Depending on what the task is it may also be necessary for the op to interact with him during or at the end of said task - can't see him doing that either.

I haven't seen any immediate ASSUMPTION that he's Muslim, there are many religions and offshoots of religions inc Christianity that men behave like this.

If HR allow themselves to be influenced by how an issue is 'framed' they're in the wrong job too! A big part of their job is calming annoyed/upset people down!

If this man will not adjust his behaviour though, he should be sacked! He's not fit for the job. Frankly I'd wonder if he's fit for ANY job seeing as 😱 women are working in all roles now.

longwayoff · 06/07/2018 17:52

Perhaps he's that aide of Trump, evangelical Christian, who wont permit himself to be alone in a room with a woman 'because I'm married'.

ReanimatedSGB · 06/07/2018 18:20

He deserves to be humiliated by his employers for behaving in an unprofessional, unethical and childish manner. But OP having a quiet word with HR and asking them to speak to him is not 'bullying', it's an attempt to make a stupid bigot behave like an adult and treat all his colleagues with courtesy and respect.

RoyalSchmuck · 06/07/2018 18:52

Thanks for all the responses Smile

I never mentioned the specific religion because I don’t think it’s relevent what is is, only that’s what I heard his reasoning might be (but this is unconfirmed and was only speculation as B was known to be religious).

So for an update, I spoke to my Manager. I told him what had happened and how it has made me feel really uncomfortable and quite offended. I showed him the emails (I had Y forward me B’s direct response to B ignoring my email) and told my Manager I was worried about when Y was off, as the task may not be done and I didn’t want to be held accountable in anyway by B’s Manager as to why said task is late etc.

My manager was very concerned about it and said he would speak to HR, as although yesterday was a one-off because Y was so rushed off his feet, I shouldn’t have to worry about facing a colleague because I “fear being ignored” (his words), nor should said task be put on a back-burner because of B’s issue with me in regards to his religion (which he warned me not to speculate to HR about in case B accuses me of racism Hmm)

HR scheduled in a meeting with me Monday to discuss and Y told me they asked him to provide them a statement. The colleague who spoke up (along with the other who was present) were also asked to email statements to HR today ahead of the Monday’s meeting - what they saw / overheard.

I feel a little better, but at the same time a little guilty, as I have never spoken to B and my team (although supportive and say they understand why I was offended) have said he’s a really nice guy and everyone gets along great with him. Still, I get the impression they don’t 100% understand what it’s like to have someone refuse to even look at you Blush probably because B is a really nice person (to guys, anyway!)

I’ll let you know how it goes with HR Grin

OP posts:
Arum51 · 06/07/2018 19:07

Just keep trotting out the "if he was doing this because I was black, would you think he was a really nice guy?" line. Misogyny is so normalised, men find it difficult to recognise even when they've seen it right in front of them.

Well done for going to your manager, you have done absolutely the right thing. Your company will modernise over the next few years, more and more women are moving into male-dominated spheres, and need a sexism free environment. Just think, if it was down to him you would never have got your job.

GinUnicorn · 06/07/2018 19:24

Nice or not discrimination is not acceptable and he need to learn to be professional or face consequences sadly. That is life.

Sausagerollers · 06/07/2018 19:34

All sorts of arseholes get away with things because "they're a nice bloke". Rapists, wife beaters, drug pushers, paedophiles.
This may sound extreme but even when your male colleagues have first hand experience of him NOT being a nice bloke, they still say he is.
This is the kind of thing that causes delays in equality truly being achieved.
How can he be sexist when "he's a nice bloke"?
How can he be racist when "he's a nice bloke?
How can he be homophobic when "he's a nice bloke"?
Well done for making a stand, this kind of thing has been allowed to go on for far too long.

longwayoff · 06/07/2018 19:35

Good luck royal. You shouldnt need it though. Its absurd that you have to address this in 2018.

longwayoff · 06/07/2018 19:36

And three cheers sausage. Absolutely correct.

EBearhug · 07/07/2018 01:11

Glad to read your update. Hope it all goes well with HR.

All work that comes into our team has to be as a ticket - no ticket, no work. There are no guarantees about who will pick up the work. It could be anyone of us in the team. I think this helps avoid situations like yours. Can you use a group email address for all work requests? This also helps ensure work will be picked up even if someone is on leave.

We did have a former colleague who refused to shake hands with me, but as I don't often shake anyone's hand, it wasn't really an issue. I would have gone to HR if it had started being a problem. It's hard enough being the only woman in a tech department.

BewareOfDragons · 07/07/2018 20:42

I wouldn't just repeat that to myself, I would ask the rest of the team the question: If he was ignoring me and refusing to look at, talk to me, or work with me because I was black, would you still think he was a 'really nice guy'?'

Gizlotsmum · 09/07/2018 19:16

How did the meeting go?

RoyalSchmuck · 10/07/2018 19:28

@Gizlotsmum - as expected. HR asked me what happened and I explained (leaving out why I thought B acted that way, as my Manager suggested). I stressed though that I didn’t raise the issue for B to be punished, but rather that I was worried in future such bahviour could have an affect on my ability to do my job, to which they agreed fully and understood completely why I felt so uncomfortable.

I did make a point of saying I felt like it was because I was a woman, but they said I didn’t have any evidence of this really, as there could be other explanations, such as perhaps B only felt comfortable asking Y because Y generally did it for him and it was just his usual habit, but agreed fully that him refusing to look at me / ignoring my email was “rude” and certainly “suggested” he had an issue with me.

They asked what I wanted going forward (did I want them to speak to B), and I said I didn’t think that was necessary, but I wanted them to be aware there was a potential issue in case of further issues and they said they’d make B’s Manager aware (without mentioned my name), and that B’s Manager would probably have a private word with him and all they could do was ask that if this happens again that I let them know and they would pull B in for a formal chat discussion.

Team think whether he has an issue will present itself when Y goes on leave and I agree. My Manager said to tell him if anything happens / is said going forward and he asked that I let him know if B raises the task request and when I complete it to let him know what happens.

We do have a shared inbox for our job role, but B had always bipassed that process and spoke to Y directly who had done it for him, but Y has been told by my Manager to stop doing this and that B must raise the request using the official method like everyone else (and Y must direct him as such). Y understood completely and actually said if the request comes through to our inbox before he goes on leave that he will leave it for me to take to see what happens.

I guess time will tell... I think I handled it well. I wasn’t out for blood or for B to lose his job, I was covering my own back more than anything as it could cause issues down the line (and as others said, if a female joins B’s team at least HR have it on record he has a history of this).

OP posts:
ReanimatedSGB · 10/07/2018 19:51

That's a pretty good outcome, OP. Management are aware, yet B is not as yet being backed into enough of a corner that he can justify tantrumming and crying that he's being bullied for his superstitions. He's been given the opportunity to behave like a grown up. Maybe (as some relatively comfortable middle class males are) he's so far not really had to face the fact that women are men's equals and he needs to deal with them as such in the workplace or other public environments.

RandomMess · 10/07/2018 20:37

Great outcome!

invisibleoldwoman · 10/07/2018 20:39

You’ve handled it really well Royal. Especially good that you’ve been able to keep your colleagues onside with you. Star

eddielizzard · 10/07/2018 20:44

perfect outcome! you did really well.

Graphista · 10/07/2018 20:45

That does sound like the meeting went well, but please don't hesitate to speak to your manager if there ARE further issues.

Unfortunately I don't think this will be the last of it.

Also good it sounds like you have Y's support.

longwayoff · 10/07/2018 20:50

Well done royal you've handled that perfectly.

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