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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be offended?

175 replies

RoyalSchmuck · 05/07/2018 20:06

I work in a very male orientated career, and I am one of two females in a team of 8 other men. Due to sickness / annual leave / meetings etc there was only me and two of the males on the team left in our department, but only myself who could do a certain task (only myself and another colleague, shall call him Y, can do this certain task).

Male colleague (shall call him B) comes over and asks if colleague Y is available to do said task. He is speaking to the guys and they say “no, but Royal over there can do it”. B glances my way and responds to them “well, when will Y be back?”

They say they don’t know and to speak to me, as they were busy with helping someone else. I smile at B and ask if I can help. He spares me another glance and again addresses the guys to say “can you ask Y to give me a call when he gets back?”

Which at this point, one of them gives him a funny look, stands and comes to stand by me and says “Royal can do it. Just let her know what you need.”

B (not looking at me but my Male team mate) responds “It’s fine. When Y gets back just tell him to pop over yeah?”

So I jokey say “why what’s wrong with me doing it?” But B doesn’t respond, to which my male colleague repeats my question. Still not looking at me he sort of shrugged and said “If you won’t pass on my message I’ll just message Y myself then.”

He walks away.

Male colleague is a bit confused by the whole thing, saying B was out of order and pointing out how uncomfortable he was that B didn’t even properly look at me. I ask whether I have some reputation I might not know about as a sort of embarrassed joke and he says none he’s heard and he’s just as genuinely baffled as I am.

Y returns from meeting, reads email from B and fowards it to me asking if I can help B as he’s busy with some work, CC’ing in B to the email. I explain what happened to Y and he rolls his eyes and goes “I wondered why he always privately messages me to do [said task], even when I tell him I’m busy with other stuff.”

The guys who were there then chip in and say it must be a religious thing and I shouldn’t worry about it.

I responded to the email and let B know I’ll work on the task. He responded by replying to colleague Y (but not me!!! Y had to tell me) “It’s fine if you’re busy Y I can wait.”

AIBU to feel a little offended? I’d understand if it was because Y did a better job etc but the task is one no one can do better than someone else, just a standard outcome. Myself and Y were hired at the same time and through talking with him at dinner it seems this certain colleague has made a comment before in passing that he doesn’t think “women should be working” and is known to be very very religious person. B works in an all-Male team and Y and co speculated that I may be the only female he comes across in our office simply because he needs said task by me and Y, and therefore he doesn’t need to interact with women any other time.

This might be so, but it doesn’t stop me feeling a bit offended!

I really, really want to raise this with HR but everyone says I should drop it, as it’s one ignorant person and in the long run I don’t interact with them at all (only time i would is for this task, which apparently B always asks Y to do anyway).

I just can’t believe it, nothing like this has ever happened to me before and I’m not sure if my shock is making me see this is as something bigger than it is, as no one else seems to think it’s a big deal?

Colleague who has the interaction, while agrees B was super rude, also is on side with everyone else that I should just leave it be and ignore B if I ever see him going forward.

Confused
OP posts:
Earthwindnfiya · 06/07/2018 10:08

I agree with the other posters saying you should report it OP. Not just for yourself but for other women he may work with in the future.

troodiedoo · 06/07/2018 10:19

@araiwa b could not make it any clearer that he will not interact with op. So it's a virtual certainty that he will just continue to email y if your proposal was put in place. Therefore higher involvement is needed.

KatharinaRosalie · 06/07/2018 10:20

Shared email for said task does sound like a good idea.

But it does not deal with a fact that OP needs to work in the same team with someone who rudely ignores her when she speaks to them, and who thinks women should not be working. I would find it a challenging and hostile work environment.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 06/07/2018 10:20

*The guy is clearly uncomfortable speaking to women outside of his family probably due to cultural/religious reasons. Some (m+f) dont speak to the opposite sex out of respect for their spouse.

And you all want to report him, then bully and force him to speak to someone he doesnt want to?? For shame

Just leave him be, he isnt causing you any problems*

araiwa - The thing is, anybody has the right to have and live these beliefs, however ridiculous and/or offensive they may appear to the rest of us.

However, it suddenly becomes a problem when they fail to acknowledge that, in the modern society where they live, the problem is with themselves and not with anybody else. If he personally cannot be in a workplace with a woman, that's his right, but it means that HE must make sure that he never join or stay in a workplace where women may be working - now or in the future.

Therefore, HE needs to find himself a job within the very limited confines that he has set himself - become a self-employed mobile prostate examiner or something.

Suppose this man also had strict religious beliefs that he must not come into contact with alcohol. Is this acceptable? Absolutely. Does this then mean that he can take a job as a barman and then immediately refuse to serve customers (or not even refuse - just point blank ignore them) when they order anything stronger than a J20 or a fizzy water?

You say that he isn't causing the OP any problems, but he is: he's refusing to recognise her as an equal colleague and in so doing, would clearly be seen to be casting doubts on her abilities, in front of her (many would say gaslighting) and the rest of the workplace.

It's not that different in principle from a thread a while back where a mother was furious at the nursery where her DD was going when they had the audacity to employ a male worker in a caring role without even informing or asking her permission first!!). What would other parents have thought when they observed her noisily protesting and objecting to him being allowed to look after her child? Sure, some might understand it was purely her sexist bigotry at play, but how many would have thought that she must surely know something else really bad about him, "no smoke without fire" etc, and then join her in refusing to send their children there because of him? Then what: the nursery closes when parents all withdraw their children or he loses his job. For the 'crime' of having a penis.

Also, the OP might be secure and confident in who she is and in her abilities, but not everybody is in that place. For some people already in a vulnerable position, this could make them dread going to work every morning in case they encounter him and he blanks them and their already low self-esteem takes a huge repeated battering - when the problem was 100% his all along. Why should she have to work in such an unprofessional atmosphere? His problem, his absolute right to hand in his resignation - problem solved.

What would happen if, say, he was the only person working with a colleague or client who had a heart attack? Would he refuse to call 999 in case a female call-handler answered? Or call and then just hang up if one did?!

He needs to be told to change his attitude and divisive practices immediately or, alternatively be asked to resign - or otherwise sacked for workplace discrimination.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 06/07/2018 10:21

Sorry for the very long post there - and bold-fail.

longwayoff · 06/07/2018 10:34

I. Me. You. Them. NOT Myself. Yourself/ves. Themselves. Please please please stop mutilating the language.

Lizzie48 · 06/07/2018 10:51

I think a lot of devout Muslim men believe that a woman should be at home caring for their husband and children. But then, there are so many successful Muslim women in the workplace, as doctors or barristers etc. So it isn't really a religious thing but more of a cultural thing.

tsonlyme · 06/07/2018 10:52

Ideally he could also have a special office in a location where he can avoid seeing women

I’d suggest that the perfect location could be at the far side of fuck.

Confusedbeetle · 06/07/2018 10:54

Document this, you may need it one day

JJS888 · 06/07/2018 10:58

Most of the devout British Muslims I work with expect their wives to teach full time and tutor in the holidays. It's all about the money.

araiwa · 06/07/2018 11:02

Maybe hes jewish like those guys that refused to sit next to a woman on a plane?

LadyGAgain · 06/07/2018 11:06

What is your point @araiwa ? Assuming that the OP is in the U.K. then we live and work harmoniously alongside people regardless. If that doesn't sit well with anyone then they should rethink where they are living.

longwayoff · 06/07/2018 11:07

His religion is secondary here. He has chosen to be where he is doing what he does. Respect for your fellow workers is absolutely basic and if its a problem for him he shouldnt be working with women.

gottastopeatingchocolate · 06/07/2018 11:08

araiwa, I think the virtual approach sounds a good one, but I would suggest OP takes it to manager/HR so that it is officially sanctioned. Could be a non confrontational way of enforcing equality in this particular situation.

araiwa · 06/07/2018 11:10

Thats all im suggesting gottastop. This could be easily fixed without a lot unnecessary unpleasantness

araiwa · 06/07/2018 11:13

ladyg my point is he could be from one of many religions or cultures but many seem to have lept on him being muslim with no idea at all. He could be anything

crazycatgal · 06/07/2018 11:14

Raise it with HR, he is discriminating against you due to your sex.

LadyGAgain · 06/07/2018 11:14

Oh I see. Yes he could be from many backgrounds and no one should be assuming one in particular unless OP has stated.

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/07/2018 11:15

I absolutely don’t think he should be allowed to get away with this on religious grounds. It’s disrespectful and discriminatory and about as offensive to you as it would be to him for a woman to rock up in a bikini in Tehran/ Jerusalem.

Strongmummy · 06/07/2018 11:33

Araiwa - If the line manager is spoken to the first thing he/she will do is probably go to HR for advice as to HOW to deal with the issue in a sensitive way for both parties and so he doesn’t get in trouble for being insensitive. Therefore they will be involved anyway most likely. Going to HR does not mean going nuclear. They are there to offer advice and ensure the company is not sued, they’re not just there to fire people !

araiwa · 06/07/2018 11:37

Yes, but how it is framed to hr may dictate their response. A manager explaning they have this situation, will a shared inbox be a suitable fix is a bit different to op going in screaming about misogyny and about firing the guy as some have suggested

MissSingerbrains · 06/07/2018 11:41

What is this religious thing - the Gilead? Confused

I would report this. It’s unprofessional.

And the PP comparing the man to Raj in TBBT - eh, no... Firstly, it’s a fictional character in a fictional tv programme, and secondly, Raj couldn’t speak to women because of anxiety, not because he thought women were inferior and had no place in the workplace.

Strongmummy · 06/07/2018 12:28

Araiwa - in this instance the colleague needs to be made clear that his actions are discriminatory and could lead to both him and the firm getting into trouble. HR are best placed to do this.

Littletabbyocelot · 06/07/2018 12:40

Tsonlyme, I was being facetious. Although I did think a cubicle in the men's loos would be a good idea.

RandomMess · 06/07/2018 12:45

I hope you do report it, he is being completely unprofessional!

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