DF's have fallen out. Now demanding money for a hotel

[Roosevelt111]

False names used: Sorry this is going to be long...

I've been friends with a group of people for about 5 years. We all share the same interest. DF1 (I'll call him Dennis) used to normally drive if we went out for the day. Earlier this year Dennis fell seriously ill and now can no longer drive. DF2 (Aka Nick) has taken over driving if we go out anywhere. For many months Dennis and Nick had a problem with DF3 (Richard).

Richard has very few social skills and quite literally has no friends apart from us. He gets anxious and very upset if he's left out of anything we do as a group. For example Myself and Nick went to see Dennis when he was in hospital. Nick didn't invite Richard to come to the hospital with us because the hospital only let's two people in at a time. Richard also lives in the same town as the hospital whilst we both live significantly further away. Richard heard we'd been to see Dennis and he text Nick. He was furious. Saying we were nasty, horrible people for leaving him out and how we never took him anywhere and how he'd never be happy again until Nick took him out for the day. Nick has refused to speak to him since

Since then Dennis's health has improved and Nick has secretly (without Richard's knowledge) organised days out with just us three. I feel incredibly guilty for leaving Richard out and have met up with him a few times at a favourite local attraction. I've offered to help him. I've tried to encourage him to try new activities so he can make new friends and gain some confidence (he has very little) but he refuses these offers. He just whinges about Nick leaving him out and how he wants his friends back.

It's all come to a head this week. Next week a major (interest related) is taking place around 200 miles away. Nick is driving. Richard can't drive a car. Richard assumed he was invited in Nick's car. Only to find out (2 weeks ago) that Nick had already invited myself, Dennis and two more friends. So as a 5 seater - it's full.

He's managed to get a partway lift (train and then a lift) off someone else but the people he's getting a lift from will have to leave the event early to drop him at the station so he can get his train home. They're not happy about this and have suggested he gets a hotel room near the event and travel home the following day. Richard says Nick should pay for this hotel room because he should have taken him in the car rather than the other friends he invited. They've had a huge row and I feel stuck in the middle. I've tried to help Richard so many times but he won't listen. I personally don't think Nick should be paying for Richard's hotel given the way he behaved but maybe Nick wbu by not inviting him to start with? how can I help Richard when he won't listen or try to do anything I encourage or suggest?

Thanks for reading if you got this far

The whole time I have been reading I have been wondering if Richard might be on the spectrum.
I have a child and a husband with aspergers and I can see wo mich of the social awkwardness and lack of thought about others. However, neither of them are arses. DS can be arse like but gets told shaprpish! Having an ASD is not carteblanche to be an arse.
I also have an older BIL with (very late diagnosed) an ASD. He is 55 and has been mollycoddled and poor behaviour excused all his life. He lives semi independently but lived at home well into his 30s.
When we visit he definitely expects to be included in EVERYTHING we do, to be taken here and there etc. When we decline he shouts and yells and my MIL does the pleading face in the hope that we will capitulate. We don't because I have 2 children and I spend my time thinking for 3 other people as well as myself and I really, really don't have the energy to think for another person.
BIL has been allowed to be an arse.
Sounds like Richard has too.

Richard is not your friend. He really isn't. Friends don't behave like him. He is just some guy you've known for a long time. Stop inviting him properly. At the very least tell him straight to his face when he's being a dick. Most likely that will cause a break up, which will be a good thing.

What will you text back?

I'd be inclined to totally ignore it.

I’d slowly distance yourself from Richard. He is not your responsibility.

Richard has got into the mindset that everyone's against him, he has it harder than every one else, everyone owes it to him to make an effort with him etc. What can you do? Not much really.

You can tell him straight that people don't make the effort with him because he doesn't with them. And when they do he's unpleasant and seems to think that everyone owes him lifts and to be included. In order to get these things he has to be pleasant, grateful and helpful. But since he's being unpleasant to everyone by shouting, people don't want to spend time with him.

If you're on eggshells around him, that's not good for you. I wouldn't be continuing the friendship on that basis. So either he changes, or...

As an aside, every sexist prat who goes on about how much less complicated male friendships are than female ones should be directed to this thread.

New update: Its all kicked off again tonight :( Richard had a huge go at Jack for not inviting him on the planned trip next year. He moaned that he never gets to go abroad and how its not fair that he never gets invited anywhere...

I pointed out that he's been on several overnight trips in the UK with Nick and Dennis in the past. They also went to Ireland a few years ago. His parents don't like travelling so I suggested he make his own travel plans. He then moaned about not having the confidence, not liking airports and being too scared to go somewhere where they don't speak English . I pointed out a local school was offering evening language classes that he could attend. He said he was too old to learn a language and then put the phone down...

I can't help him can I? I think I'm only just starting to realise that

No you can't fix him.

You shouldn't be trying to fix a friend anyway.

Richard's your case not your friend it seems.

He hung up on you. Wait for his apology. I bet you'll have to wait a very long time.

You’ve been told from the beginning that you cannot fix him. Stop acting like you really care because clearly you feel more comfortable and at ease when not around him. Not sure about the face about languages etc. I’d be worried about travelling somewhere with no English as I cannot speak another language, I also don’t like airports and wouldn’t travel on my own. Flying to Ireland is not the same as going abroad. Just cut him off and be blunt about it. You don’t have to like him but it really doesn’t sound like he is acting this way deliberately, so kindly but bluntly tell him your friendship is over and you don’t want to hear from him again. I can’t stand when people hang up, I’m more pissed at that than anything else really. My mum would do that as a way of thinking she has won the argument, but she is a narcissist so, very different really. But anyway, cut him off and move on.

When I say travel alone, I mean abroad. I’ve flown from England to NI alone, but hated and was shitting myself every minute.

I thought the same as Jeff. He needs support.

Why are you still on this silly merry go round OP?!

Richard is not your friend. You seem to feel obligated to maintain this idiotic non-friendship with him even though you prefer when he’s not around.

He is not your problem to fix. It’s not up to you to “help him” or to be there so he feels like he’s got friends.

Don’t contact him again. This is the end of it.

This whole saga is so unbelievably childish.

None of you are behaving like adults!

You don’t like someone? You don’t want to see someone or go abroad with someone? THEN DONT DO IT! You don’t have to discuss or explain that to anyone.

Jack also needs to grow up and stop this ridiculous back and forth with Richard.

Honestly, this is such a load of unnecessary drama.

This isn't going to get better you know

I think you now need to take a step back and stop trying to fix this. Richard has burnt his bridges with the others in the group. It was obvious from the first post that Nick is done with him. Now several others are following suit. Ask yourself what you are getting out of this friendship and why you are continuing it.

Another one that is wondering why you are doing this op? He's not your child, he's not your friend. Why are you doing this? Really look at your boundaries and establishing healthy ones. Why should you be responsible for an unpleasant, entitled grown man?

Hmmm. Richard has been pointed in the way of fixing things but is givng it the whole 'yes, but...' thing, which leads me to think that he's less on the spectrum and more of a selfish deluded pig of a man who thinks that the world should organise his life for him. I bet if he went abroad you'd have to sort him out with a passport....

It's nobody's fault but his now. One last phone call, OP, to tell him that you are so disgusted with his behaviour towards people he called friends, that you are cutting contact. Don't worry, you won't have to see him at your group meetings because, if nobody makes the effort to organise him, he just won't go.

Incredibly sad for Richard but realistically there is nothing you can do to change him. All you can do is change how you react to him.

Personally, I could not abandon a friend like this but I would work on trying to not let his behaviour affect me or to take his behaviour personally.

Don't suggest solutions to him. Just listen and say something like 'you sound very upset, I am sorry to hear that' and change subject.

If it was me I would continue to check in with him and suggest one to one meet ups (if you can face it) but just not engage in his problems with others.

I know a lot of people suggest cutting him loose and I don't think they are wrong, I would just struggle to completely abandon him like that. Its very much a personal choice though.

I saw a lovely quote "One awesome thing about Eeyore is that even though he's basically clinically depressed, he still gets invited to participate in adventures and shenanigans with all of his friends. And they never expect him to pretend to feel happy; they just love him anyway, and they never leave him behind or ask him to change'

You could replace depression here with 'HFA'

Do you really want Richard and all his drama in your life? It sounds like in one way you enjoy being at the centre of it all, being the middle man, negotiating with all parties. And that's fine- just don't dress it up as something else.

you can't help him. If he can't understand that being awful to people and shouting at them means they don't want to spend time with him, then really there's nothing more you can do.

I know you want to help him, but you can't if he won't help himself.

also curious as to why Jack chose not to invite Richard as well....also why Jack and the OP thought it was okay to discuss an event they were going to but that Richard wasn't invited to in front of Richard.

Seems a pretty rude thing to do.

I mean I wouldn't talk about an event lots of people were going to in front of the one person that wasn't being invited.

It's pretty obvious why Jack didn't invite Richard on the trip but I agree its not a good idea to have discussed it in front of him.

He's a dick.
You are not his saviour or knight in shining armour.
You will not miraculously be able to reintegrate him back into the group. This isn't a nature programme and you haven't rescued a baby seal. You Are attempting to re-foist a dick onto a party glad to be rid.

You need to take a step back now before you are ostracised from the group for being a dick by association. Seriously take a look at your own behaviour now. Time to dip out of the drama unless you really like the role of put upon rescuer who just keeps getting dragged under? I don't see how you can because its a full time job and more.

I feel sad for Richard, but you can't continue to allow him to treat you all in the way that he does.

I sooo want to know what the hobby/interest is though!

Richard does sound like hard work, not because of his anxiety, but because of his entitlement and expectations. He does sound very needy and his expectations of friends are a lot, I would be pissed off if I had to leave a venue early to drop somebody at the train station.

@MountFuji Thank You. That's the quote I was trying to think of.

"I saw a lovely quote "One awesome thing about Eeyore is that even though he's basically clinically depressed, he still gets invited to participate in adventures and shenanigans with all of his friends. And they never expect him to pretend to feel happy; they just love him anyway, and they never leave him behind or ask him to change'

You could replace depression here with 'HFA'"

sadly OP sounds like she needs to walk away for her own mental health. It is very draining being 'friends' with someone like this btdt
can't help anyone if 'I' am worn out from everything as well

((((((Hugs)))))

I never read anything where Eeyore was a dick to his friends. He moped. He never ranted.

Poor mental health is not a free pass to being a dick that others women must accept.

In my experience men are really quite tolerant of mates who are dickheads and so the fact that your male mates have cut Richard off for being too much of a dickhead is very telling indeed. Run a mile from him.