DF's have fallen out. Now demanding money for a hotel

[Roosevelt111]

False names used: Sorry this is going to be long...

I've been friends with a group of people for about 5 years. We all share the same interest. DF1 (I'll call him Dennis) used to normally drive if we went out for the day. Earlier this year Dennis fell seriously ill and now can no longer drive. DF2 (Aka Nick) has taken over driving if we go out anywhere. For many months Dennis and Nick had a problem with DF3 (Richard).

Richard has very few social skills and quite literally has no friends apart from us. He gets anxious and very upset if he's left out of anything we do as a group. For example Myself and Nick went to see Dennis when he was in hospital. Nick didn't invite Richard to come to the hospital with us because the hospital only let's two people in at a time. Richard also lives in the same town as the hospital whilst we both live significantly further away. Richard heard we'd been to see Dennis and he text Nick. He was furious. Saying we were nasty, horrible people for leaving him out and how we never took him anywhere and how he'd never be happy again until Nick took him out for the day. Nick has refused to speak to him since

Since then Dennis's health has improved and Nick has secretly (without Richard's knowledge) organised days out with just us three. I feel incredibly guilty for leaving Richard out and have met up with him a few times at a favourite local attraction. I've offered to help him. I've tried to encourage him to try new activities so he can make new friends and gain some confidence (he has very little) but he refuses these offers. He just whinges about Nick leaving him out and how he wants his friends back.

It's all come to a head this week. Next week a major (interest related) is taking place around 200 miles away. Nick is driving. Richard can't drive a car. Richard assumed he was invited in Nick's car. Only to find out (2 weeks ago) that Nick had already invited myself, Dennis and two more friends. So as a 5 seater - it's full.

He's managed to get a partway lift (train and then a lift) off someone else but the people he's getting a lift from will have to leave the event early to drop him at the station so he can get his train home. They're not happy about this and have suggested he gets a hotel room near the event and travel home the following day. Richard says Nick should pay for this hotel room because he should have taken him in the car rather than the other friends he invited. They've had a huge row and I feel stuck in the middle. I've tried to help Richard so many times but he won't listen. I personally don't think Nick should be paying for Richard's hotel given the way he behaved but maybe Nick wbu by not inviting him to start with? how can I help Richard when he won't listen or try to do anything I encourage or suggest?

Thanks for reading if you got this far

Obviously we can't diagnose a condition based on a couple of posts on a forum but it is obvious that he does have issues of some kind. He seems to have become obsessed with Nick for some reason.
The OP has tried to help him in all sorts of ways but he wants Nick to take him out for the day etc.
It must be very wearing for Nick. Is Richard attracted to Nick?
Maybe Nick senses this and is trying to keep his distance. On the other hand I don't think Nick handled the hospital visit very well and should have explained to Richard that only two visitors were allowed at once and perhaps he could have arranged to go with him another time.
To be honest, you've tried to help him and he isn't listening to you. He seems more interested in Nick anyway. You should just continue doing things as a group without Richard and if you want to (and it isn't too much of a burden) you could do things with him on his own, but if he is going to be ungrateful and demanding then you're better off letting the friendship slowly die out. He isn't your responsibility.

On a thread running at the moment, someone asked if it was necessary to directly teach social communication strategies and interpretations to a child with HFA, and I was firmly in the ‘Yes’ set. Otherwise, you may perhaps end up with Richard; desperate for friends and being included, but an adult with the coping mechanisms of a young child who has no understanding of what is going wrong and how to stop it. Who is difficult and demanding with no ability to reciprocate appropriately.
It is a minefield.
My children are fortunate to have friends that not only recognise when they are struggling, or being an arse, but help them through it, often with explicit explanations.

Richard sounds very similar to my son. DS1 is nearly 15yrs now with ASD - I AM NOT DIAGNOSING RICHARD.

The most difficult part for me to comprehend of my son's ASD is how selfish and self centred he is. Because he can't see anything from someone elses point of view it means he is never wrong. If he is never wrong then he never needs to apologise. Therefore he never learns from his mistakes.

Richard is ridiculously entitled and self absorbed. I'm not surprised Dennis and Nick don't want to be friends with him, who would? He's a CF. Nobody owes him a lift or a hotel room, or a friendship. I'd drop it.

he does sound like his got some sort of social behavioural problems but that doesnt mean you can fix him

i know someone a bit like this doesnt demand hotels or anything but gets irriational if you dont invite them to every single things youre doing-theyve lost most of their friends but cant see why

can I just interject as an Autistic Adult.

Autism isn't an excuse for being an arsehole. It doesn't excuse you from treating your friends and family like shit. Both myself and my sibling have Aspergers and neither of us have ever managed to treat anyone quite so horribly as Richard.

Please stop using his potential for being autistic as a reason for him to be treating everyone like dirt.

He sounds more narcissistic than autistic to me.

Another autistic adult who thinks this isn't solely autism related. There's certainly signs of it in the way op describes him, but he also sounds like an asshole - perfectly possible to be both!

im also an autistic adult and have autistic children, and whilst none of us are arseholes usually that doesnt mean that some autistic tendencies and lack of theory of mind can quite reasonably cause all sorts of undesirable social behaviours and issues with friends. It IS a social communication disorder and a social disability and it can quite commoly cause issues in friendships. Thats completely different to saying that autism makes you an arsehole or whatever, but autistic people can be arseholes just like anyone, but some very common autistic traits can be very difficult for NTs to accept or deal with, and if the autism is undiagnosed and the person has not had help with navigating these social issues from a young age, theyll just be ostracised because they cant bloody do it, and everyone gets pissed off

Definitely sounds autistic to me. (My son is autistic) and struggles with social situations, although he would never behave like Richard. But then having beeen diagnosed at age 7, he has actively been taught social skills for many years, both at school and at college.

Surely Richard's parents can see he has difficulties, which he must have always had - what, if anything, have they done to help him?

Thanks for the advice and comments

I've messaged Richard today and told him straight. That he needs to start making a social life for himself away from our group. I've said I'll try and help him but that I can't do so until he starts to help himself. That I feel like he's using me to try and get back in with Nick and Dennis again..

For those that asked why I feel like I have to help him. The simple answer is that i'm a soft touch... I worry about how he would cope if we all "ditched him" and who would help him apart from his parents (who wrap him in cotton wool and shelter him to the point we've got to now). I guess I feel loyalty but at the moment that loyalty is being severely tested

Agree with PPs who say Richard has been Wendied. Funny how Richard and Dennis got along just fine before Nick came along.... and yet now Richard is being excluded and pushed out and it's all his fault because he's so difficult and demanding.
Nick is a Wendy. Watch your back, OP. And think about whether you are doing the right thing in colluding with his exclusion of Richard.

emsy are you ignoring the part where Dennis was seriously ill in hospital and Richard's only concern was that nobody gave him a lift? He hasn't even asked Dennis how he is, didn't send a card, nothing.

Richard has parents who have encouraged Richard to think that he is the centre of everyone's universe. Richard, ASD or not, needs a bit of a life lesson.

I'm not ignoring any of it. We only have one of many possible accounts of what has gone on. There could be many reasons why Richard didn't visit Dennis. The overall picture though is not casting a nice light on this Nick character, and his arrival on the scene seems to be the start of all the drama. Manipulative people can be very clever at making a person or a situation seem a certain way.

Yes, I think that if Richard wants to be friends, he can actually BE FRIENDS, which means not whining constantly about one thing that happened a while ago. However, if nobody is going to tell him how to go about being a friend, then there’s no way this ever gets any better.

I completely agree with Squidgee and Branleuse. The possibility he might be autistic is a potential explanation, but not an excuse. Once he’s been told why he is a PITA, it’s how he chooses to respond that makes the difference. It sounds as if his parents haven’t skilled him in any way, just allowed him to continue unchallenged. Not helpful.

Richard sounds like a bloody nightmare.

All of this is just speculation BarbarianMum - I could speculate reasons why he didn't visit (did he know Dennis was ill/how serious it was? Was he already angry and upset with Dennis by then because of whatever went on when Nick came on the scene? Did he have other personal issues that the group perhaps are unaware of?)
It's pointless to speculate though because we will never get the full story from just one participant. The OP only knows what she knows, and is only telling us what she believes is relevant. All I'm saying is that where Dennis and Richard had a perfectly functional friendship before Nick came along, and yet now we have a situation where he is being excluded to the extent that the OP (as a long-standing friend of Richard and Dennis) is now telling Richard that he needs to find new friends, it makes me wonder what part Nick has played in all this, and why. Nick is now driving all the group except for Richard to a planned event but it is somehow unreasonable for Richard to be upset about that. FWIW I do think that is a very mean and childish way to behave towards Richard. Either OP is friends with him or she isn't, but if she is then she is not a very nice friend if she just accepts the lift for herself and thereby colludes in Richard's exclusion.

It could also be that Dennis didn't have many friends so put up with crap from Richard but then met Nick who treats him better and now doesn't see the point in being treated badly by Richard.

So from Nick’s point of view....

His mate was very ill and he wanted to go and visit him. He offered Op (who lives near him and can’t drive) a lift. It didn’t occur to him to offer Richard a lift as he didn’t see this as a “fun group outing” what with it being visiting the possibly dying friend.

Richard then threw a massive wobbly and started announcing that Nick should take him out for the day and how we wouldn’t be happy until he did. (Presumably his suggestions for a day out did not involve visiting Dennis.)

Nick, quite reasonably, ran for the hills. Feeling vindicated when he discovered that Richard’s sole concern about Dennis’s illness was that it was stopping Richard having days out. Dennis dying wouldn’t bother him at all presumably.

Nick is going to an event next week and generously offered a lift to four friends. Richard is now saying that Nick should pay for a hotel room for him as he isn’t giving him a lift!

If Nick was a woman and posted all this on Mumsnet we’d be calling Richard a stalker and advising Nick to log it with 101.

I would think each participant's version of events here would be so markedly different from all the others that you would struggle to identify them all as the same story!

I don’t think anyone should have to be friends with others but fs, Nick came along and then Richard started being excluded from days out or other things he wasn’t invited to. That alone is wrong. Why not just tell the guy you don’t want to hang out? Instead you have told him to find his own friends away from the group. You’ve basically told him to do one as he isn’t part of the group anymore and no one likes him. That’s lovely isn’t it. I don’t know enough about him to really comment much more but nick joining and then the exclusions happening and now dennie doesn’t want to be friends with Richard anymore seems odd to me.

Maybe Nick, when he joined the friendship group could see what a strain Richard put on the group, with his self-centred, entitled and indulged behaviour. Maybe he tolerated it up until the hospital lift row. Sometimes people are so accustomed to an individual, that they don’t realise how much they accommodate them.

Richard’s parents have failed him big time allowing him to remain dependent and so ill socialised.

emsyj37

All I'm saying is that where Dennis and Richard had a perfectly functional friendship before Nick came along

It was a functional relationship. But was it a good relationship, I suspect that all Nick has done is show Dennis what a friend should be and broken the circle that was Dennis and Richard.