to find it hard to talk about race/racism as a black woman without feeling like I'm 'playing the race card'

[CalliopeSparkles]

Sorry if this isn't the most eloquently put post. I read some of the threads on here where people seem to know so much about their subject, it's a little intimidating at times (not a bad thing) so will do my best to get my point across!

I am a mixed race woman. Black and Caucasian. Recently saw a clip of George the Poet during a search:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkmV6viAfz3/?utmsource=iggsharesheet&igshid=1ilippwo0ufby

Nothing we haven't seen before!

My dad is a runner and went out running one evening. He was pulled over by the police who asked to search him and his bag, saying he looked like a known criminal (he's a professional with a clean record, never broken a law in his life - other than simple ones like breaking the speed limit or not wearing a seatbelt). My brother was strip searched in a shopping mall once after someone thought he was shop lifting (he wasn't), my other brother lives in London, works for the BBC, clean record, and has been stopped and searched 4 times in 2 years, all for no reason (that he could tell anyway). These are all hurtful for me to hear and I know there is something wrong with this. If I've ever entered in to a discussion about it however it often turns in to people becoming defensive, trying to defend why the searches might have been done, and a refusal to see an issue. I believe that most people in this world are good, and kind, and are in no way bigoted or racist, however why is it so hard for some people to simply admit that racism does exist? It's almost like it's taken as a personal insult at times, even though I am as explanatory and unbiased as can be in my discussion.

The last straw for me was the other day when my whole office was in total uproar about a crime stoppers report regarding a white male that was called a 'cracker' by two black men. This is awful racist behaviour, however the anger is never there when it's the every day 'normal' racism we hear about towards ethnic minorities.

AIBU to think that there IS a problem and to be frustrated when trying to discuss it with those who won't engage unless it's their own race that's affected?

03051781boo
I’m surprised it didn’t make the daily male...

mail

MarthaArthur

Ghana girl fuck off. Because you believe black people dont use the term race card then thats it? Well my ex friend used it. Sorry not sorry if you have an issue with her. Me telling the story doesnt make it bullshit.
Very mature “sorry not sorry”!

RoseWhiteTips
Why is cheekys post goady?

What's " a cracker" mean?

@vandrew4 it's a derogatory term for a white person. Not sure where it came from but I heard recently that it might have had something to do with white oriole cracking whips (however that could be a complete fabrication so don't quote me on it)

*people

I understand "cracker" came from afro americans who viewed white peoples skin as "cracking" in the heat down south.

@Mrsharrison could possibly be. I've never looked in to it. I'm going to guess it's one of those things that had many explanations and we don't really know where it came from originally.

I'm sorry this has happened to your family. And I'm sorry that this is happening more often to black people than white people.

I support you in your attempt to discuss this openly.

Not unreasonable in the slightest. I'm white, married to a person of BAME heritage and worked in his country of origin for several years. Whilst there, I experienced racial prejudice on the regular, from things like total strangers touching and commenting on my skin and hair, to assumptions about my nationality and preferences/beliefs etc. I was denied access to shops and bars, and people often assumed I didn't speak the language so commented freely on my looks, the fact I was probably a prostitute...I distinguish my experience from racism though, as I was still earning twice the local rate for less work, had accommodation paid for me by my employer that was luxury compared to locals, and for every negative comment there was a ton of internalized hatred of their own culture vs an assumption that mine was aspirational. It was one of the most humbling experiences of my life to have even a tiny taste of what BAME people go through and have gone through in my country, whilst still being hugely privileged on a count of my race. Now that we live back in the UK, the structural racism my husband faces every day makes me ashamed. I've heard people laugh off, minimise and get awkward around his experiences; had people automatically address me instead of him assuming he doesn't speak English; seen people visibly relax when they realise I'm with him.

I'm always amazed by the casual racism that goes on when a group of white people get together.
I'm mixed race but very light so many people think I'm white. One guy said to me jokingly "play the white man." His face was a picture when I told him my heritage.

So I'm very anxious if I find myself in a group of white, usually older people because there is nearly always one person who says something racist and I know I'm going to have to have a row.

Why would i put myself through that?

I know that might have appeared invisible earlier in the thread due to the typos in my post, but to be clear (on my laptop) this is not a london issue in any way

Not all police are intentionally rascist, many are trapped in a culture of how things have always been done, unconcious bias, and a dose of cause and effect (in this situation my gut instinct is correct, type thoughts).

S60s are just a part of it; and of course they are not a london only thing.

That ER example was spot on imo.

sorry op. I am with you.

Started writing several thoughts but have stopped because as a white woman I can't claim to have any experience at all.

It must be awful to be constantly reminded that you are 'other' by being asked where you come from and Leeds as an answer won't cut it.

People blame Brexit for a rise in racism but I believe its been there all the time. I think many people know that their inner views are considered socially unacceptable so they don't voice them. Doesn't stop them secretly thinking it though. It's just been suppressed.

London is often described as 'wonderfully multi cultural' but I'm sure racism simmers there too including between ethnic groups. Despite what the right-ons may claim.

I don't know the answer but pretending it doesn't exist in some places seems foolish.

It does happen..It was a school holiday a few years ago.I was in a shop with my children.My son left me to look at some items.He was about 14 at the time.Next thing I know I saw him being searched by the security guard.The guy was making him take all his personal items out of his small shoulder bag to be sure he hadn't stolen anything.I went over and asked what's wrong.The security guard said my son looked suspicious because he was on his own walking around the shop.I explained that he is with me and he's browsing and we had separated because he wanted to look over there and me over here etc.. I explained that at this age most kids don't want to be tied to their mummy out shopping so how can that be wrong?..I asked how can "browsing" be suspicious and why hadn't he called me since I was in the shop just a stone's throw away.I pointed to other children who were also "browsing" on their own and asked why he hadn't stopped them,didn't they look suspicious as well.I was very annoyed..I asked to see the manager.The manager said the security guard is just doing his job.Thats the response I got.I think my son was picked on because he is black.He looked suspicious.The white kids did not.It was school holidays after all and the shop sells childrens things.My son found it amusing at the time.I didn't.I asked what happened,he said the man asked what he's doing,who are you with,let me see what you have in your bag,he said he emptied his things one at a time..and said this is my oyster,this is my vaseline etc..I asked why he hadn't called me and he said the guard wouldn't let him.I was furious.I told him that from now on you need to be careful because when going into places,being black and being male you will be "guilty"..of something..until proven innocent...I said if ever you buy something insist you get a receipt (because not all shopkeepers give receipts to kids) to avoid the embarrassment of being accused publicly of stealing.Being treated like this is wrong,but this is how it is.

I encourage my kids to see that not all people are racist.My parents came here from the west indies in the 50s and although they experienced racism at times they have never transferred anything negative on to us whilst growing up.I feel that there are good and bad in all people.I don't believe all police are racist for instance.Ive met some amazing police officers who are such a credit to the profession and for the ones that seem "coarse" at times I know they have a very difficult job and their only human so this must affect their attitude from time to time.But I think racism still does exist today. I don't understand why esp in London.It could be lack of understanding of different cultures or negative stereotypes about others etc.I live in a predominately white area.Most neighbours are nice but some just seem like they don't want to be.The area where I lived before was abit more multi cultural.I didnt feel a hint of any bad vibe.The neighbours got on well with each other..it had such a good atmosphere...street parties..summer fetes..etc...people would say hello, good morning! and so on..the area where I live now there's none of that..if I say good morning or try to be pleasant I'm blanked..Its sad..I can definitely feel the contrast in people's attitudes. I have felt twinges of this attitude from time to time in the past but I haven't felt these kind of vibes for years and didn't know some people were still like this,but I just don't let it bother me.I say to myself they must be very unhappy to feel the need to be this way and I don't take it personally at all.Some of them seem to have good jobs though so I do wonder how their attitude must affect the way they do their job if they have to work alongside or come into contact with other races that they don't particularly like.

I saw this thread when you started it yesterday, OP and I am depressed to see it went exactly as I thought it would. I’m a white woman and I know that I can’t possibly appreciate what BAME people go through on a daily basis. But I believe you. I’m listening to you. I hope I can learn and understand more from you.

OP I agree and as someone who has white priviledge it’s something I can only speak and empathise with on a very theoretical level

The closest way I can imagine it was when I was In west Africa and got some very suspicious looks And hostility . It’s almost impossible for white people to understand being negatively judged purely for the tonal shade of one of your organs.

I have been frequently disappointed by MN on race issues to be honest .

I don’t know what to say really . Just because it’s not as bad as it was - does not mean it’s better

03051781boo the way you're being treated is disrespectful, disgusting and unfair. That's the long and short of it. However. I, like other PPs before me, also do not agree with you about it being on the same level of the generalised societal racist discrimination which many black, Asian and mixed heritage people face in the U.K.

As bad as I feel to hear of your trials from your husband's family, you chose to marry him. You had the choice knowing how they were treating you. And if you wanted, you've got the choice to leave him. I'm not saying that you should have to make that choice, and I'm not saying on any level that I agree with what they're doing. What I'm saying is, you can choose if you want to.

How many people belonging to an ethnic minority have no choice but to wear their skin each day and take the slights, the disrespect, the name-calling, the negative assumptions/associations, the missed opportunities which cannot be proved.... all the injustices (and the not being believed) which come part and parcel with belonging to an ethnic minority.

That's my view of the truth of this matter.

I wasn’t saying it was on the same level at all. I was pointing out that the op stated she can’t talk about race as a black woman without being made to feel she’s playing the race card, I was demonstrating my opinion that you can’t talk about race as a white woman without being made to feel that you’re a racist, you’re shut down (check your privilege) and that you should be thankful it only happened once, or doesn’t matter because you haven’t had it as bad.

seen people visibly relax when they realise I'm with him.

Yes, I've noticed this too.

03051781boo maybe you weren't, although admittedly, that appeared to be what you were heavily inferring.

In response to your initial post other PPs certainly appeared to think it is pretty much the same thing. I felt it important to point out it's not the same and explain why.

It does sound like you resent being reminded that some skin types have a natural state of higher privilege in society than others. It is a fact. I'm guessing you find this unpalatable because you yourself do not think like this and you wish to distance yourself away from those that do.

I agree completely OP. White people often have such a grandiose sense of importance, which harks from the good ol' days of slavery and the Empire. I think, in Britain especially, there is so much pandering to this idea that we still rule the world and are above everyone else. We are conditioned to believe this as it is in the government's interest to keep everyone indoctrinated with this bullshit so they can carry on doing whatever the fuck they want.

It seems to me that it's acceptable for a white person to talk about race (whether to be racist or otherwise) but as soon as a black person mentions it they are 'playing the race card' or 'still angry about stuff that happened 150 years ago' as if the end of slavery was the end of racism. It makes white people uncomfortable to be reminded that racism exists. When it comes from a white person it's reasonable discussion but from a black person it's seen as an accusation. (FWIW I am white)

The days of empire were a great way to convince the white working class that they were a cut above the rest of the world.

When in fact they dealt with hunger, poverty, disease, used as cannon fodder for several wars. The white working class did not benefit from the billions of pounds made via the empire.

They were spun a line and fell for it hook, line and sinker. But as long as they had another group of people to look down upon, they could feel proud of their status.

When my dad came to the uk in 1956 he was shocked at the squalid conditions that the white working class lived in.

OP there will always be people excusing away these situations, I'm not surprised to see a couple on this thread already after a handful of posts.
Either people want to actually have conversations about racism or they don't. This ^^ comment says that actually you don't. You want everyone to agree that all instances where someone who isn't white gets involved in some way with the police is racism. But it's not, any more than all such instances are 100% NOT racism. Unless both sides are willing to consider the other viewpoint then it's pointless. At the end of the day there will be some circumstances where it's fully justified (matches witness description), and some where it's racism (or bias for another reason e.g. a distrust of anyone driving a loud sports car regardless of colour).