to find it hard to talk about race/racism as a black woman without feeling like I'm 'playing the race card'

[CalliopeSparkles]

Sorry if this isn't the most eloquently put post. I read some of the threads on here where people seem to know so much about their subject, it's a little intimidating at times (not a bad thing) so will do my best to get my point across!

I am a mixed race woman. Black and Caucasian. Recently saw a clip of George the Poet during a search:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkmV6viAfz3/?utmsource=iggsharesheet&igshid=1ilippwo0ufby

Nothing we haven't seen before!

My dad is a runner and went out running one evening. He was pulled over by the police who asked to search him and his bag, saying he looked like a known criminal (he's a professional with a clean record, never broken a law in his life - other than simple ones like breaking the speed limit or not wearing a seatbelt). My brother was strip searched in a shopping mall once after someone thought he was shop lifting (he wasn't), my other brother lives in London, works for the BBC, clean record, and has been stopped and searched 4 times in 2 years, all for no reason (that he could tell anyway). These are all hurtful for me to hear and I know there is something wrong with this. If I've ever entered in to a discussion about it however it often turns in to people becoming defensive, trying to defend why the searches might have been done, and a refusal to see an issue. I believe that most people in this world are good, and kind, and are in no way bigoted or racist, however why is it so hard for some people to simply admit that racism does exist? It's almost like it's taken as a personal insult at times, even though I am as explanatory and unbiased as can be in my discussion.

The last straw for me was the other day when my whole office was in total uproar about a crime stoppers report regarding a white male that was called a 'cracker' by two black men. This is awful racist behaviour, however the anger is never there when it's the every day 'normal' racism we hear about towards ethnic minorities.

AIBU to think that there IS a problem and to be frustrated when trying to discuss it with those who won't engage unless it's their own race that's affected?

Going to be honest with you OP, I’m from a predominately White area so black men and women aren’t really seen so this is alien to me but I do know how you feel rather than racism it’s sectarianism here, you feel excluded because you aren’t the same as the majority, the undertone of trouble about to kick off etc. There is no excuse for anyone to be victimised because of colour or religion or anything.

GoodFortuneAttendThee
She was being incredibly racist against black women.
I guess that’s okay though
White privlege is more important than the OP’s post regarding racism

Nothing she said, whether you agree or disagree with the points she was making, had anything to do with whether she is a good mother or not. You can't possibly know whether she's a good mother or not, you have zero evidence on which to make that assertion..it was an unnecessary and uncalled for insult with no relevance to the discussion.. likely why it was deleted.

I think anyone who thinks racism like this doesn’t exist is either racist or deluded. I lived in London for 20 years. I was never stopped by the police, while on for or driving. I am white. My partner, also white, never was. I know no white person, friend or colleague who has ever been stopped by the police. I lived and worked in some of the rougher parts of East London. My black and Asian colleagues and friends all had accounts of either themselves or family members being pulled over by police while driving, or stopped while walking.

Stop typing white privilage it’s insulting to us who were born in council schemes who have been harrassed by police. Don’t know what your talking about..you seem to be racist Ghana girl venting anger at this privilage some of us are supposed to have had..
Daughter of singles mum who got our food from un marked cans of food from the church and took our clothes in binbags to be washed at grandads.

I didn’t have the privilege of seeing what ghanagirl wrote before it was deleted but I take no heed of what she’s saying - it’s obvious she’s just lashing out, and proving my point that when white folk speak about racism they’re called racist as that then ‘wins’ the discussion (similar to calling someone a ‘terf’ to try and shut them up)

I’d like to know what she perceives to be incredibly racist to black women though?

Absolutely agree with you. I am white. I know that there is a lot I can learn from listening to BAME people, especially women. Sadly, I can believe that the poor treatment experienced by you and your family may well be racially motivated. It happens in the USA an awful lot, and doesn’t seem unrealistic to suggest it might be happening here too.

I do know that I have privilege. I’m a woman so I’m not quite at the top of the tree, but in every other way, I am privileged and I know it. I have had good opportunities in life, and have largely been able to go about my life unharrassed.

OP, if met you, I would be absolutely be open to hearing what you have to say on the subject. I would likely feel a bit helpless and wonder what on Earth I could do or say to contribute towards change. Perhaps that is one of the reasons behind the squirming of some white people; and the accusation of ‘playing the race card’. TBH, whenever I hear or see that phrase, I consider that the person has lost the debate.

You are definitely not being unreasonable, OP. Most people are racist to a certain extent. People get very offended and defensive about anything that suggests they are racist. However, rushing to defend a white person being called a cracker (so-called "reverse racism," which isn't even a thing) pretty much gives away that they're racist. I'm sorry you and your family have been treated this way.

I am a white woman, albeit Jewish, which makes me technically BAME. However, I pass, so I get to see how non-BAME white people behave, and generally they don't have a clue.

I have come to accept that there is a black experience, an Asian experience, a Native American experience etc etc that I can have no real knowledge of. I am there and ready if black/Asian friends ask me to do something specific - as an example, a colleague at work was having a bit of a laugh on a night shift and said "NC, have you noticed that no darkies have been nominated for Star of The Month? You are white, they will listen to you, will you nominate one of us?". It was a joke but it's also true, so of course I will nominate one of my fantastic BAME colleagues this month.

Basically, I no longer try to engage with or understand the black experience, as most people do not try and engage with the Jewish experience. I have conciously decided just not to, and instead to just love and appreciate my visibly BAME friend and family and just believe them when they tell me what they've experienced, and ask how I can help. It's been quite freeing.

@Kewcucumber The racial abuse comes from them hearing the language that their parents and other adults around them from the same ethnic group use about other ethnic groups since they were small children. They think it is acceptable to use it because no-one close to them, who they respect, challenges them about it.

If you know how countries that had Empires kept, and some government regimes keep control by demonising other ethnic groups and using the method of divide and conquer, it isn't surprising that you hear such shit from people whose families originate from former colonies or countries known for horrific regimes.

Luckily not everyone is as stupid as that and challenges the rubbish that comes out of family members mouths about other people.

Racism is very common - I hear plenty of comments from mc family and friends to know that. However as others have said, it's a normal human instinct that needs to be overcome through conscious effort and education. It's also complicated - eg. many people with racist leanings will be celebrating the win of the England football team tonight whilst conveniently overlooking the fact that half the players are mixed race or black. Many/most racist people will make exceptions to suit themselves. Personally I always try to treat and think of people equally, and not let others make racist comments. But I'm very much aware of race. Not in a negative way but I do notice different characteristics. Maybe some people genuinely see all humans as the same - more likely if you grow up in a mixed area possibly?
Let's not pretend that black people wouldn't be the same towards whites if the situations were reversed. It so happens that whites are dominant in our world today, but it could easily be thr other way round. BAME people aren't inherently less racist than whites.
Completely agree with op that racism against BAME people is present, under recognised and must be considered completely unacceptable in any form. It's up to white people to listen and learn from people 's experience and to challenge little things when we come across them.

Let's not pretend that black people wouldn't be the same towards whites if the situations were reversed.

OP I haven't RTFT but I'm ashamed to say that 20 years ago I would have been one of the white people you didn't want to speak to about race. I thought it was all done and dusted and no longer a problem except for a few Neanderthals. As I've got older and seen how sexism is rife and covert I've realised that it's the same with racism. In my office I'm the only woman- everyone else is male but either black or Asian. I've become aware of my white privilege. (They don't appear to be aware of their male privilege however).

It's a problem alright OP, I'm white and my half sisters are biracial and they defijnitely get racial abuse, I see it all the time when I'm with them right down to cashiers in shops.
It is something we need to be talking about without thinking about someone playing the race card. Mind you it's a loaded subject that even us sisters find it difficult to discuss sometimes.

YANBU obviously (to anyone with eyes).

Yes the person to whom you refer is unreasonable in all debates on the subject. The accusation is thrown about by her and she pretty much goes unchallenged.

Ghanagirl

I’m definitely over with Mumsnet the
Huns on netmums less racist

Their door is open, I’m sure.

White privilege isn't about how rich you are or where you live.

It's recognising that people of a different skin colour to you i.e in a minority, are treated differently than you and are presented with a level of discrimination you will never experience in this society. You as a white-skinned person will remain unaware of all of this unless you listen to those people's experiences who are not white.

So it's a lot like male privilege.

It's recognising that people of a different skin colour to you i.e in a minority, are treated differently than you and are presented with a level of discrimination you will never experience in this society

This is the best definition of white privilege I’ve seen, this sums it up perfectly.

Yes, white people can be racially abused, and I’m not minimising that, but it will absolutely not be the widespread, institutional bullshit that BAME people are presented with on a daily basis. It’s not the covert and sly nasty treatment so prevalent in society, or the different treatment trying to do the most basic things (travel, shopping, getting tradesmen to your house) that non white people face.

Thanks for that SoddingUnicorns.

I am white. My wife is south Asian. Last week we were walking along a road, holding hands as we do, and we were spat on by the white female passenger of a white van that then sped off. Most of the gob got in my wife's har and face - some onto my face. She was the primary intended target, as far as we could see. I am devasted, she is distressed but indicates she gets inured to it, esp growing up.

As a white person, I would never be spat on in the UK purely for being white. But I was last week for holding hands with my non-white wife.
There's white privilege.

And one thinks it will worsen after Brexit.

Oh my god that is absolutely appalling, spitting is the lowest of the low. How dare they???

I wish I even knew where to start, it absolutely appalls me. I cannot comprehend the mind frame where someone’s value lies in their skin colour, I honestly can’t.

I see people talking about being proud to be white. Why? I don’t get it.

I wish that had never happened to your wife, I wish it never happened to anyone and that nobody had to become used to it. Because it’s wrong, on every single level there is, it is never right and never acceptable.

Quite. I've always had a zero tolerance of racism. Now it's sub-terranean.

Am aware of the sort of denial of racism that there is, and often on MN, as posters try to think of an alternative explanation as to what has happened in a particular scenario. And struggling to accept the notion of white privilege and acknowledge why BAME people won't want to talk race with white folk is part of it. imho

It absolutely is a part of it, and the irony is that it’s often the “right on” ones who’d swear blind they aren’t racist saying it! Without realising that their failure to acknowledge that it’s very real and a massive problem is entirely part of the problem!

As mentioned before I am mixed race, but many white people assume i'm white.
Walking down the road with my black boyfriend many years ago, a racist called out from his car "a n*** with a white girl".

If i'd been on my own, the racist would not have been aware of me, i would have been invisible to him. He would have been invisible to me, i would have had no knowledge of his racist views. I would have had white privilege despite being mixed race. A subtle kind of white privilege that i wouldn't be aware i had.

A girl i knew who was obese was complaining to her dad about her weight. His reply "at least you're not black." A very extreme kind of privilege.

The problem is that a majority of people have no idea what racism feels like. People think that harmless ‘jokes’ are acceptable or just because the description of some wanted person is ‘black male’ it justifies searching every black male in the area.

I used to be quite ignorant myself until I experienced racism myself. My experience is VERY minor and I admit insignificant compared to what lots of other people go though every day. I am Scottish but moved to London about ten years ago. I work in a customer facing job I’m the public sector and have to deal with s lot of complaints. About once a month or so s disgruntled customer will attack. Their first port of call is my nationality. I get told very often that I’ve no right to be working in the role I’m in because I’m not from this area, that it’s peole like me from ‘elseswhere’ that take up jobs and homes for local people, that I’m a f’ing jock, Scottish people are scroungers, that the sooner Scotland is booted out if the U.K. the better then I can ‘go home’, etc etc all of this and I’m a white British citizen. I can’t imagine what others go through. I really can’t.

People are ignorant to the problem and to be honest I think a lot of people are unconsciously racist.