What do you do in the face of blatant defiance?

[LadyRussell]

I am posting as a step mum so please don’t flame me!!

I have never had this with my own kids.

DSD1 is 13 and this weekend has been a bit hellish.

She is just blatantly rufusing to do things. For example we were at the beach and she refused to sit on the blanket so was covered in sand. We all washed our feet off at the tap and she point blank refused.

DH then made her put her feet in a bag on the way home, he was going to not do that and just get her to vacuum the sand from his car but he thinks she would have refused to do that too.

He took her phone from her (we pay for it so we feel this is ok) and then she was messaging her Mum from her sisters phone who was colluding with the girls telling them they should make an excuse to be dropped Home early today.

Several more times in the evening she refused to do as asked. I had a chat with her and asked her if everything was ok, she wanted to be here etc and she opened up to me a bit but there was nothing she disliked about being here.

We are running out of ideas of how to deal with this? What do others do?

I work with kids with EBD, so encounter defiance daily. It’s not easy for the kids I work with to articulate why they don’t want to do something, especially when they’re often subjected to unreasonable force at home, so they just refuse and kick up a fuss.

It’s my job to help them to understand why their behaviour is inappropriate, but not to judge the reason for it. Then I help with a choice of appropriate strategies for the feelings.

If she didn’t want to go to the beach, but had to because everyone else did, could you have empathised with her feelings and offered a compromise for when you got there?

Aw love, I know it’s boiling and you don’t fancy sitting outside- let’s find the big brolly for you to lie under, and we’ll nip to Sainsbury’s on the way to get some of those drinks you like and a snack. You get the ice blocks- I’ll get the cool box .

I think the only thing she did wrong is rinse her feet to reduce the risk of sand in the car. I too have a 13yr old (and 12 yr old!) and if they refused after I'd explained why, I'd have said they were hoovering it up when we got home. I would then not engage in any further discussion - change subject if necessary. If they refused to hoover car when back home, then I'd remove privileges like the phone.

I don't see the refusing to sit on the blanket an issue - her choice to be frank and she can learn to take the consequences of it (ie, sand and the tidying up of it). To her she might feel there's a lot of rules with no real understanding of them other than "I said so" and that never goes down well with teens because they are no longer young kids but young adults learning how to become independent.

So, it's your car, you like it clean, she messes it up, she cleans it.

Why dose it matter thatshewas covered in sand your picking battles that don’t need to be thought

You need to let go

This is not "blatant defiance". This is "being a 13 year old girl". And it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

She is going through a hell of a lot of crap right now. Her body, her friendships and relationships, her opinions and beliefs, everything is changing. She's going to be crashing around like a pinball for the next few years, and your micromanagement is going to be disastrous.

1. Have some compassion for her. It is not easy being a 13 year old girl.
2. Stop being so rigid in your thinking. Just because your kids did something, doesn't mean it's right for this girl.
3. Pick your battles. Don't sweat the small stuff, it's pointless.

PP have already told you all this, but you're refusing to listen. You are coming across as rigid, controlling, and lacking in empathy for a child. Please try to listen to what people are telling you, or you (and DH) will destroy your relationship with DSD. You're right, she doesn't have to come to see you, and if you turn everything into a running battle for control, then she will stop coming, no matter how much she loves her dad.

How to Talk So Teens Will Listen and Listen So Teens Will Talk

Have a read of something like this?

I do get that you've had teens before but clearly this Step DD is of a different ilk and differnet statergies could mean less stress for everyone all round.

Why on earth were you dictating where she sits and what she wears? She's 13 not 3! It doesn't matter if she wears a swimming costume everyday of the week, she's not a young child anymore and she wants to start exerting more control over her environment. It's natural and healthy for her to have more control over her own life now and of she feels too constricted she's going to push back against everything you say (which is what is happening).

Based on this thread you seem very inflexible and incapable or unwilling to take on board other people's opinions. Is your DH the same way? Teenagers are different from young children they're transitioning into adults and there needs to be space for discussion and compromise. It's fine to draw a hard line for important issues but issuing constant petty demands and expecting baling obedience will backfire.

We have rules at home that everyone has to follow and she knows that - I have been around since she was 5. Some rules are flexible some are not,

It might not be a big deal but it’s the principle.

My son also washed his feet as did her sister.

It’s a bit like having a rule of taking your shoes off when entering the house but allowing someone to argue the toss about it and walk round the house with their outdoor shoes on and making everyone else take theirs off...?

I have read the book.

It’s a bit like having a rule of taking your shoes off when entering the house but allowing someone to argue the toss about it and walk round the house with their outdoor shoes on and making everyone else take theirs off...?

But then, of course, you would point out that they were making marks on the floor, and give them the hoover and a mop. Natural consequence of breaking that rule.

Imagine what the child's mother tells her friends 😂 "and then they made her put plastic bags on her feet in case they got sand in the car! No, I'm not making it up, honestly, that's what happened".

Why couldn't she just stay at home if she didn't fancy going to the beach? I understand you wanted her to get some fresh air and off screens but I think if she really didn't fancy it then you should have listened.

Ah teens and being clean, soap dodgers some of them, mine included. It does drive me nuts, mainly because I think people will see mine with greasy hair, smelly and unbrushed teeth and feel it will reflect on me as a crap parent. So I've told them this, and I've said the reason why we keep clean, because as human animals we are conditioned to shun those that may look ill, and we want to be socially accepted by keeping clean. And then I take a step back and let them get on with it. They are both gradually cottoning on that I don't just say these things for the sake of it, but to help them. You can after all lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

You don't seem to be listening at all OP. Did you tell her you appreciate her coming to the beach even though she didn't want to? Forget the sand - why were you telling her what to wear? Why were you telling her where to sit?

And there is no way I would have hoovered our the car as a pp suggested.

I do talk to her a lot about stuff. We talk about periods, self harm, her sexuality (her Mum says she is too young to know her sexuality). We have a good relationship.

She had argued about which two she used we all queued for the tap for washing your feet and she refused to use that one and wanted to use the dog water tap so when we walked to that one she refused to use it.

I think that this is normal teenage behaviour and boundary pushing.

You're bigger problem is with their Mum colluding and undermining you and their Dad's authority when they are with you.

I feel that I'm explaining to somebody who is deaf and blind. But the thing about being a stepchild is that in their other home there is a different set of rules. This makes the apparently arbitrary nature of the rule in the non-resident's parent house problematic. 'I don't do this at Mum's house. Why should I have to do it here?'

I get that as a parent and step-parent you want to be consistent. The rule for your own children should also apply to your stepchild. But it's not quite like that - you do cut them some slack. If your own children are now grown up, they won't be too bothered by a 13 year old getting a bit of sand in the car. And if your own chldren are kids the line is more, 'When you get to be 13 you'll have a few more choices because you'll be big enough to clean up properly.'

I am not sure where I am telling her what to wear.

You can't control Dsd's behaviour you can only control your own. Lots of people have told you that you come across as controlling and inflexible. Why not change that?

"Why couldn't she just stay at home if she didn't fancy going to the beach? "

That's what I was wondering.

It's not as if her not going meant that no one could go.

You're bigger problem is with their Mum colluding and undermining you and their Dad's authority when they are with you

Yes that is a whole other thread.

'It's a choice - you can wash your feet OR Hoover out the car when we get home. It's up to you, love - what would you prefer?'

A very wise friend said 'have few rules which really matter, but be prepared to enforce those absolutely. Be flexible about everything else, and let your children experience natural consequences.'

^cantkeepawayforever Sun 01-Jul-18 14:21:01
"It’s a bit like having a rule of taking your shoes off when entering the house but allowing someone to argue the toss about it and walk round the house with their outdoor shoes on and making everyone else take theirs off...?"

But then, of course, you would point out that they were making marks on the floor, and give them the hoover and a mop. Natural consequence of breaking that rule.^

^^This @LadyRussell
Let her find out those natural consequences of why your rules are there.

Last time we went to the beach, I was too busy burying one of my teen DCs in the sand up to their neck to worry about whether they sat on a blanket or not.

I think the fear was if she actually refused to hoover the car where did we go then.

It was a massive Lidl bag DH gave her and she and we were laughing about it in the end but then she continued when we got home just refusing to do anything she was asked to do - it was all a bit odd tbh.

Good grief OP. She refused to wash her feet because by this time she was so royally fucked off with the pair of you that if you'd politely invited her to snog her favourite boy-band member, she'd have refused.

You were literally on at her from the time she arrived.

And did it occur to you, at all, that she may not have wanted to go to the beach/wear a swimsuit/sit on a towel because she was worried her period was about to start? Period paranoia is a constant backdrop to teen girl's lives. It's incredibly difficult to predict when periods will arrive, and to manage them, particularly in public spaces, when they do. Empathy. Find some.