What to do with a racist grandmother...

[Ginismyfriendx]

I'll try and keep this short....
After a few years single, have met the most wonderful man and am at the point of introducing him to my family. Ideal situation would be a family BBQ next weekend. However.... New Man is black, and grandmother is quite racist. When I say racist, I don't think she'd say anything, but she would worry herself non stop. She's mid 90's and has advanced heart failure so sadly she's not going to be with us much longer. I'm the youngest grandchild -and favourite- and she had a lot to do with me growing up. She's far too old to change her opinions and I'm of the opinion just to not tell her, or introduce her, to New Man and ask family to do likewise. I don't want whatever time she has left worrying herself to death that I'm going to be beaten / murdered (which is exactly what she would think).

Even writing this feels wrong and colluding with racism, and how on earth I'd try and explain it to NM. But is it worth distressing a very old, very ill, person who will not change her opinion? Despite everything, she is my granny and I love the old bat to bits.

Completely understand you don't want to finish granny off in shock but... it may not be as bad as you think. From personal experience with two pretty racist grannies they just seem intrigued and enchanted by my sisters black partner. Never a racist word has been uttered by them on the matter. If my grandads were still around I think that may have been a different matter but the ladies love a charmer it seems ;)

And to the poster below yes it does cut both ways you know! My sister receives a lot of unpleasant comments from black women largely referring to "stealing our men" which always makes me laugh as it sounds so ridiculous. Racism isn't a one way street.

I think warn both parties beforehand and then introduce them.

Chances are the granny will remember her manners when faced with a pleasant young man. And the man will doubtless have come across slightly racist old people before.

IME there are many people who will make racist comments in private almost as a habit but would never dream of actually saying anything to anyone's face

No offence but your gambling your relationship in the fact you assume she will be dead soon and problem solved. She could have a few years left, she is obviously made of strong stuff. Ample time for you to become serious move in together etc. Are you going to put all this on hold for a racist and potentially lose your chance of a life with this good man.

Will go back and read, but wanted to say that I read the title to the tune of "what shall we do with the drunken sailor"

peoplearemean

No one suggested otherwise.

My black family would not be racist to your sister - FYI

Also, I HOPE you are not looking to play racist top trumps ie competing with black people on systemic and historic racism....

ANYWAY

best of luck OP , I hope all goes well for you both.

@Eminado I honestly don't think @peoplearemean is trying to play top trumps here. No one could ever honestly think that the two are comparable; the prejudice some black people have against mixed marriages is in no way comparable to the disgraceful systemic racial abuse that black people have been through at the hands of white power. It's hardly surprising that there is mistrust as a result.

Nevertheless, on a personal level it will be painful for peoplearemean's sister to face hostility from her OH's family and naturally her sister will be sad for her.

Anyway, I'm glad you and your NM are on the same page with this, OP. Other posters are right that he sounds like a keeper. Good luck.

Different situation for my parents but my mum is an Irish Catholic and my dad is a Scottish Protestant. My Scottish Granny HATED Catholics and my dad warned my mum before she met her. My Mum never, ever heard a word about it, even when my granny got dementia. People are scared of what they don't know, or in my Granny's case, hate what they have been brought up to hate without even questioning it. But people can change and when confronted with a nice person whose company they enjoy there will be no conflict. I always thought it was funny that all my Scottish aunts and uncles went on to marry Catholics and all my Granny's grandchildren were Catholics! I remember Chris Rock once saying that there was no point hating anyone because whoever you hate is going to end up being in your family! Op, it sounds like you have your work cut out on both sides of the family but it might not be as bad as you think. The best of luck to both of you, your boyfriend sounds lovely.

Forgot to add that my Mum always had a close relationship with my Granny as well, they were very fond of each other, so it wasn't a case of her being tolerated.

@Lizzie48

I wasn't going to address you again as I feel that you have marked me out to be some sort of vigilante or something which while upsetting, is not factually correct.

I asked you a direct question - are you black?

IF you are not, I would please ask you to refrain from referencing me again as it is really upsetting actually.

While you listed your "credentials" - missionary family, black African friends at Church - I would like to CATEGORICALLY tell you, once and for all, that unless you are actually a black person, you have no idea what it is like to live being CONSISTENTLY judged on the colour of your skin.

I am sure you are a nice person and come from a lovely self aware family who have taken time out to minister to those less privileged than themselves. This is very admirable and we need more people like this in the world.

HOWEVER
You are not black.
Don't you dare sit there from your benevolent virtual seat telling me who I should reference on a thread and intimating that my experience is invalid or exaggerated.

FOR YOUR INFORMATION:

My parents - apartheid - kicked out of schools, banned from University despite getting required grades
My parents - apartheid - made to cross roads if white people on them, or use separate facilities

Me - tennis camp - only black kid - didn't play one single match. 9 DAYS!!!! Not a warm up, nothing. Never mind that I was a 1st team player
Me - fastest swimmer, House medal winner - didn't make the school high team - odd
Me - Degree educated x 2, speak perfect English, well travelled - sat at Sunday lunch with white boyfriend while NAN asked if "brown girl" wanted green beans
Me - work in London, professional services, Big 4 - asked to show my work pass when joining colleagues at the dinner table
Me - professional services, senior level in Big 4 - colleague said to give the only lady the wine menu - waiter - she wont know what to choose
Me - in a local deli ("affluent area") - staff don't serve me for ages, when they deliberately pronounce foods in French or Spanish turn red when i know what they are (I am also a qualified chef FYI)
Me - stopped and searched at WATERLOO over 7 times!!!!! i have an ANNUAL season ticket worth over 3k - FULLY PAID FOR
Me - pulled over by police REGULARLY with 2 kids in the car, all in car seats, car is new enough not to need MOT, taxed, insured - when questioned why they have pulled me over - JUST CHECKING, is this your car etc?

Don't you DARE come at me again with some "i have black friends at Church" when the above is my DAILY LIFE!!!!!!

I am a good person, I am a good and kind human being, self aware, socially responsible, pay all my tax and NI, no criminal record, love my parents and take care of them, raising my kids to be good and kind and considerate human beings.

I am not "picking on" anyone for jokes. This is my REAL life. Racist nanas, racist posters, racism swept under the carpet .....

HAVE YOU LIVED THIS?

Like I said, which you didn't answer - ARE YOU BLACK?

Still waiting for an answer.

Racism is humiliating.
It makes ordinary people feel worthless.
It makes people question their sense of self - should they change to fit in, or should they "swim upstream" and be who they are without apology.

It is DISGUSTING. Whether you are 9 or 90.

There is no need to be so aggressive. No, I'm not black. But I'm from a mixed marriage, my father having been Czech and my mother White British. I'm also a victim of childhood SA at the hands of my father. I have 2 adopted DDs, one of whom has a lot of needs.

So, whilst I'm not black, I've had a lot of horrible things to deal with. There are other people besides black people who have difficult things to deal with.

I don't know what I've done to merit such aggression. I apologised for saying that you were goady before. And I'm sorry you've had such a lot to cope with, I really am. I'm ashamed to be white sometimes when I think of the things that white people have done.

You're not the only one who is upset. Can we please at least call a truce?

@Lzzie48 you have just used the trick white women frequently use when questioned by a non-white person specifically a black woman by calling their questioning behaviour aggressive and trying to say your situation is worse.

I'm giving up now. No, my situation isn't worse, obviously not. I haven't faced racism day in day out. I really apologise for causing offence, and I wish you all well.

I hope it works out for you and your NM, OP.

@Edmindo I didn't mean they butt in but I've seen and been a victim of behaviour in rl like the PP's.

There are other people besides black people who have difficult things to deal with.

I am literally speechless.
We are on a thread about racism.

@BlueBug45 I wasn't going to post again, but have to say that, yes, you are right, people who are black are more likely to have their behaviour interpreted as aggressive, however in this case I felt eminado's first post directed at me was hostile and at that point I had no idea what colour their skin was - I'm not sure how being accused of being worse than a racist can be taken any other way but hostile.

Of course things can be misinterpreted online - no body language or facial expressions, no tone of voice to give extra clues.

@mirime

I havent searched your post histortynetc but i wondered:

Am i the first to disagree with you on a Mnet thread?

Would you mind showing me where I was aggressive (quote etc)

Thank you(wm

@eminado couldn't say if you are or not, I've posted in a lot of places online, some a hell of a lot less friendly than here. I've had a lot of arguments and I'm used to robust debate. Can't remember which were where.

I never used the word aggressive by the way, I said you were hostile. As I've already said I don't see how I could take your accusation of being worse than a racist any other way and your seeming determination to twist anything I say reinforced that view. You may not have that intention, but it's how it reads to me.

Anyhoo, I wasn't intending to get into this again, but as I have I'll answer your other questions.

No, you never outright said I should shout at anyone, but seeing as I'd already said my grandmother is deaf what else do you think I could do? It's all a bit of a moot point anyway as she doesn't really talk much now.

As I said, in the past she was frequently challenged, she knew our feelings on the subject - just like she knew I thought it was fine to be gay and that I wasn't worried about catching AIDS from a mug. I disagreed with her views on many things, and I'm one of those people who feel compelled to argue, especially when the other person is so completely wrong - and hypocritical to boot, you hate apologists, I hate it when people who have emigrated want to pull the ladder up behind them.

I am white.

@mirime

Did anything at all in my post of 12:40 today resonate with you?

The reason I am asking is you have called me hostile (aggressive, whatever).

I am wondering whether you are able to actually take time to step away from personalising this (me, your grandmother) and just digest what daily life for me and other black people like me and my kids and their cousins etc is like?

I feel in trying to express my perspective, i have actually become the focus when the actual issue is so much bigger.

You can call me hostile but have you actually made a meaningful contribution to the debate re: racist family members and their unfair treatment of people (who also have family members, family structures, people who have invested in them and love them, oh and are also human beings worthy of dignity and respect).

At the risk of prolonging this thread....

Looking just at my family. One side of my family disowned a sibling for god knows what, but was either based on race or nationality. The other side of my family (grandparents generation) vehemently anti-English (Welsh nationalist).

My Parents born in the 50's brought me up to be open-minded.

I'm in an inter-racial relationship, both siblings in a relationship/married to English men.

Isn't there a positive in this that every generation is moving in the right direction. I'm no-where saying this is enough, but looking at my nephews the next generation are totally committed to equality in all forms (totally blows me away how open they are to LGBT compared to just 20 years ago).

I had a similar situation with my Grandad and my now husband (then boyfriend). My Mum broached the subject with him first so that he was prepared and aware that he had been accepted by my Mum and Dad. He’s never said anything about it, but I can tell he’s not really in favour of our marriage. Tbh there’s the odd anti white racist on my husband’s side too, but they are in the minority and know to keep it to themselves.
Could you speak to your Dad and see what he suggests and if you do take your new man warn him first that your Gran is racist, but will unlikely say anything and that the rest of your family approve and do not agree with her. You might find he has the odd bigot in his family too x

@eminado
just digest what daily life for me and other black people like me and my kids and their cousins etc is like?

I posted on another thread a day or so ago that I worked with a lovely lady, she was one of those amazing people who really strive to make their community, to make the world, a better place and she always had a smile. She was also from Pakistan and a Muslim and was fighting to get rehomed by the council because of the racist abuse she was subjected to by her neighbours. It was appalling. Really, really appalling. And terrifying for a woman on her own with a child.

I can't even remember why I posted my original post, iirc it was in response to someone suggesting the OP should go NC and just giving my view on that. It wasn't supposed to turn into a conversation with anyone about my GM.

I feel in trying to express my perspective, i have actually become the focus when the actual issue is so much bigger.

I feel somewhat similarly, except substitute 'perspective' with 'view'. And that combined with it being painful for me to type at the moment means I'm probably bowing out now.

Aww he sounds really nice. Yes put mother and granny together and enjoy the BBQ .

I think some posters on here must have had very little contact with truly old people. Maybe they read ‘granny’ and think of their own or one they know? Obviously someone in their 60’s or 70’s would be considered differently. This woman is a whole generation older than most grannies you’d meet.

Truly elderly people need more carefully considered interactions, and yes, often require you to put your preferences and modern principles to one side for a short time out of kindness.

My granny is 97, and perfectly sound of mind. I’m going to visit her for 2 weeks on the other side of the world. I’ll be having a little talk to myself on the plane (lord knows there’ll be time enough) about which topics to concentrate on, which to swerve around, and which need to be shoved in the vault for that fortnight. She is a product of her generation, and her century-old brain isn’t going to undergo a revolution of thinking/believing just because I think she’s wrong.

I’m an authentic person with strong views. It’s difficult to hold back on my pet topics when I hear certain opinions. But I like to think I’m a kind person, too. I can change the rest of the world, and let her see out her time in her way. Frankly I don’t want to be responsible for hastening her demise by stressing her out.

OP, I think you’re kind to think of your granny’s emotional health. I don’t think it’s weak or colluding at all.

@Skittlesandbeer thank you. That's exactly how I feel. I constantly have to bite my tongue, but she's not going to change now. She lost a lot of family during both wars and I think a lot of the racism / xenophobia comes from this. Plus her dad (my great grandad) was I think in his 50's when she was born so he came from the Empire / Victorian era.
I'm not saying it's an excuse but she was brought up in a world we have no comprehension of. She grew up in dire poverty and left school at 12/13. She's a sharp and compassionate woman and I'm sure given a different path in life she wouldn't have the views she has now. It's completely based on ignorance and reading certain newspapers :/