AIBU to say that I am a woman, not a 'non-man' 'non-trans woman' or 'cis women'

[R0wantrees]

I was born female.

I started having periods aged 11.

I started IVF in my late 30s and was diagnosed with gyny cancer.

As a result of the surgery (total hysterectomy) which no doubt saved my life, I have no uterus, cervix or ovaries and am childless but am fortunate to be well. My Gyny cancer was unusually caught at an early stage.

I know these to be uniquely female experiences and as an adult human female, I am a woman.

However, some activists with the Green Party have sought to use 'non-men' as a descriptor.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/feminists-mock-green-party-young-womens-invite-to-non-men-a6987061.html

There has been assertions on Mumsnet and elsewhere to use the descriptor 'non-trans woman'
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3289890-great-piece-by-academic-kathleen-stock-mentions-mn

and not using the descriptor 'cis woman' is deemed by some to be transphobic.

Sometimes women have to say 'No!'
I think words matter
I think sex matters

And I do dislike the assumption that all trans women are desperate to get into women’s spaces so that they can assault them with their dangerous penises.

I have no problem with the people who are genuinely going through, or have gone through, transition - that's what "trans" stands for, transition . Where I and many others have a problem is when a man can declare themselves to be a woman at a whim and gain access to women's spaces. There's no consideration of transitioning with some of them, no hormones or surgery, just "feelz". That they declare for themselves, and as nobody I know is a mind reader we can't tell what's their true intention for entering those spaces.

However this thread is more about the fact that terminology now seems to be "men" and a long list of other types of "non-men" e.g. women, trans women, intersex etc. There's men and then all others are lumped together, however there are as many different gender types in people sexed at birth as men (based on biology) as there are with people sexed as women.

What does cis mean? Cunt In Situ? People should be able to behave as they like and be protected as needed according to their sex.

Shouldn’t we be “un-men” if we’re going full Gilead?

I am a woman, always have been, always will be. I've not always liked being a girl/woman, but I refuse to be called a non man or any other bloody prefix and refuse to recognise the term cis woman so men can appropriate the name woman and our history for themselves

Yes, Chimamanda!

I think almost everyone on earth agrees that trans people should be treated with love and respect as fellow humans who are going through a hard experience.

HOWEVER, the trans women who refuse to see the danger self ID poses to women CAN HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS TO BE A WOMAN.

Non-men.

We really are the second sex these days!

Describing myself as a women is a biological fact and not a hate filled act.

Cunt in situ? I like your sense of humour, "Frogscotch7*

we could just say 'woman' and 'transwoman' - what's the problem with that?

we could just say 'woman' and 'transwoman' - what's the problem with that?

Maybe we should call trans women penwomen - people who identify as women who have/had a penis?

I am a woman. Why the hell should I be classed as a cis woman?

FourFried, because that's not good enough for the transactivist lobby. Nothing short of complete capitulation will do.

We must be a subset of the class of woman, so cis women and trans women are both women. Notice the gap. It's important because the claim from transactivists is that trans element is just an adjective. So you might say tall woman, short woman and then trans woman. Which is why I say transwoman. Because transwomen are male by definition.

I think the very terms trans woman and trans man are confusing, and require plenty of people to do some mental gymnastics to figure out who they are actually talking about.

Because everyone references people based on simple criteria like name, sex, age, height, hair colour, etc. We all want to be nice, we all want to get along, and so we don't voice our confusion. But people are confused.

Isn't trans short for transitioned? I think when a lot people think of "trans man" for example, they are thinking of a man who has transitioned.

Anyway, OP, YANBU. There are only 2 sexes, and they are immutable. Unless people can change their DNA?

You can define yourself however you please, as can anyone else.

JoyTheUnicorn

How the fucking hell have we reached a point where no-one can say they're a woman without having to qualify that they are, in fact, someone who is female?

How have TRAs got so much power that they seem to be holding all the cards? Seriously, there must be something going on here, welcome to the world of white male prvillage

If a a load of black or Asian men were demanding access to woman’s spaces it would be a non starter

Except that it's generally accepted that you don't define yourself as something you blatantly are not, or at least you don't expect other people to endorse it, Mostdays. Otherwise there's going to be a lot of billionaires and supermodels.

Women and transwomen are two separate and distinct groups. I don't think many people, including many trans people, have a problem with that.

I’m a woman whose gender matches the one she was assigned at birth. I’m a cis woman. No more or less a woman than trans women.

I'm a woman who was born with female biology. I don't have a 'gender', I don't ascribe to that ideology as I think it's limiting and regressive.

As my sex does not match my 'gender' I can't be 'cis'. I would be offended if I was referred to in that way. I am just a woman.

What about the trans-men? Women who have transitioned and now live as men? This totally ignores their existence, as by the logic of this nomenclature they should be "non-women". Clearly they don't have a strong enough lobby.

Anyway, back in the real world and on to happier matters.

Today I pointed out to my daughter a field of non-bulls on their way to get milked.

Later we'll go out and feed the non-cockerels and hope they lay us some eggs for breakfast.

The world has gone mad. Is it so difficult to know what a female human being is “a woman” born with a vagina and a womb. A man is born with a penis. Why do we make life so complicated

I have a uterus, a vagina, ovaries etc. Yet I wear men's clothes, my hair is short, I wear no makeup.

You're a woman. You would be a woman even if you had a double mastectomy and ovaro-hysterectomy, and then spent every night down the pub farting, scratching your crotch, looking at Page 3 and yelling at the football.

Is it OK if I yell at page 3 and look at the football, Ayn?

I can define myself however I want, but I cannot force others to agree with my definition. No matter how I view myself, whatever I feel is most important to be part of my identity that I use to express myself to others, that doesn't mean anyone else has to agree with that or that that is how they will identify me. Even when it is 100% objectively accurate, that doesn't mean anyone else sees that or has to recognize that. I could identify as a female dysphoric intersex people - and have in some discussions on relevant topics - but other people see me either as a masculine woman or a small man & treat me accordingly.

Cis is often loosely translated to mean on the same side when we ignore the other important chemistry bits that used to be typically attached to it. Serano - who is often said to help popularize it's usage for people who are not dysphoric or trans - has in writing on it said that both cis and trans are nebulous terms that don't fit many people and yet this binary seems to be getting stronger. Of course, Serano also says a bunch of shite about detransitioned people and puts us under the trans umbrella when many of us would rather just be in the grey (though I guess it is less offensive than someone saying that my not continuing transition means my dysphoric ass is on the same side as the gender attributed to my observed sex).

As already said, sex assignment was, until very recently, used only in medical literature about intersex people diagnosed at birth who had their sex characteristics surgerically altered obviously without their consent. That is what sex assignment is. Intersex people, regardless of which DSD we have, are still female or male. Efforts to make us (in our range of dozens of conditions) a third sex or to use assigned at birth has been repeatedly called out by many intersex activist and education groups.

The autistic/trans comparison was well discussed by SporadicSpartacus, I just want to add one addition - both of those are false dichotomies. There are many ways to be not neurotypical than just not being autistic: ADD, dyslexia, some put depression in that as well among many others. There are many ways to not be on the same side of typical gender expectations than being trans or dysphoric. That's the issue of defining things by what they are not - it tends to reduce even when socially it becomes the only polite words we're given.