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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Evicting my sister who doesn’t pay rent

236 replies

Vanessatiger · 27/06/2018 08:36

Back story: half sister divorced a few years back, left with her SN child. Lived with my parents, was depressed about her situation, was saving to buy her own place.
We were buying an investment property in the central parts of London. She occupied that flat (2 beds and newly renovated), paid no rent. Got herself a good highly paid job, didn’t offer to pay anything, we pay the council tax and associated costs with having the flat. We pay her water and heating. I’m a bit fed up frankly, and she says she’s saving her whole salary to buy the new place. She also buys a few designer handbags meanwhile.

AIBU to evict her by September? To rent it out to a bills and rent paying tenant?
The idea was that she’d take care of the flat, fix things that get broken etc, but last time I went nothing was fixed. Shower door was creeky, dish washer door was loose etc..

She’d have to go live with my parents until she sorts herself out.

I say we’re half siblings because she didn’t benefit from the economic advantage i got from one parent’s family’s side. So my husband and I are much more well off than her.

Help, it feels like I’m going to upset up

OP posts:
juneau · 27/06/2018 15:38

You clearly are very fortunate OP, but that doesn't mean that you have to subsidise your DSis her whole life. You've let her live for free for two years while she gets herself back on her feet and that's a really kind thing to have done. Well-off you be, but plenty of well-off people wouldn't have done that. And with a job paying £60k it's not like she's on the breadline, nor will she be when either ask her to start paying her way or she finds somewhere to rent/buy for herself and her DC. But the generosity/guilt has become a piss-take and if she's the type that will now make you feel awful for bringing the arrangement to an end then she's a CF (not to say a blackmailer for threatening suicide). You've been more than generous and if she wants to throw that back in your face at this point then it just goes to show it's high time you called time on her freeloading.

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/06/2018 15:42

She’s the sort to trash the flat when she leaves.
That was my thought too.

If you want to help your niece out, you could consider setting up a bank account or similar for her accessible when she is 18/21, perhaps overseen by someone other than her mother if she will never live independently. It doesn’t have to be a 3 way split between your niece and your DC’s. But you could use future rental income from the flat for this and it would be far more helpful than letting your sister piss her money up against the wall. You could also consider leaving her something in your will. These are all possibilities of course.

If your sister doesn’t have enough money saved for a deposit she can always go to another family member and ask them for help!

There was a thread on here perhaps 18 months ago. Very similar apart from the fact it was well over 10 years down the line and the house owner had received no rent from their sibling. They’d set up a tenancy with no written agreement iirc for a nominal amount of £100 instead of substantially more. Paid once maybe twice then never again. Idk what happened as the op went off grid after the thread. House not maintained either.

This will be you in a decade if you don’t do something. Is this what you want? Imo you need to be cruel to be kind.

mononoaware1907 · 27/06/2018 15:44

2 years of free rent, utilities AND buying designer bags? Oh yes, pls. She's a CF at its finest

MrsPicklesonSmythe · 27/06/2018 15:48

2 months on her salary is more than enough to save a deposit and first month's rent. She may have to move out a few zones but don't we all!

Chocolatecake12 · 27/06/2018 15:54

You sound like a lovely sister.
But you bought the property as an investment and it’s costing you money.
Could you do this in stages? So first of all get her to pay her bills. She needs the know how much these cost so she can budget in the future. Then give her 6 months to get that sorted then start charging her rent but at a reduced rate.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/06/2018 16:58

she has talked about killing herself before so noone in the family dares taking a stride with her including myself

Quite the little manipulator isn't she? Hmm

And yes, you're probably right that she won’t pay anyway and that she’ll "huff and puff and act all hurt", but if you "feel bad" even mentioning this and your DH won't back you up either, what DO you want to happen?

whatashower · 27/06/2018 17:24

Given the uncertain property climate, if you were treating the flat as a proper investment you would be reviewing your portfolio as a matter of course and considering putting it on the market. Getting estate agents around to value etc. How would she cope with that information, supporting you and making sure the flat was pristine? I am guessing the answer, but if so, it makes it transparently clear she is holding you to ransom here, which is awful and will not go away without some hurt.

GinUser · 27/06/2018 18:11

Sell the flat to your sister.

Hissy · 27/06/2018 18:27

Tbh... the only way out you have is to sell it....

And buy something else (after a few months) and let that out.

FrancisCrawford · 27/06/2018 18:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

eloisesparkle · 27/06/2018 20:05

Hissy
You'd incur stamp duty and capital gains tax if you did that (in Ireland)

whatashower · 27/06/2018 20:07

I just needed to say op, that life is too short for this. I worry that you are feeling guilty for having good fortune, in terms both financially and more importantly family. And that your relationship with your sister is one of manipulator and victim. That is very sad. Importantly, if those circumstances were to change, I do not think you would get the same or in kind support from your sister and that is the issue. For your own wellbeing you have to be able to have a grown up conversation with her about this to put your relationship on a more respectful footing. Give her that chance to come good, although you anticipate that going badly. Then you will at least know where you stand and perhaps you will get to the bottom of why she is so blatantly taking and abusing your generosity. It is resentment, I suspect, but skirting around the issue forever isnt going to solve anything. If you are going to be brutal about it, that money in kind could have been for your kids or an epic charitable donation - no-one can 'not miss' £50k +.It was your choice to give initially but it is also your right - and arguably obligation - to say stop or negotiate an acceptable settlement. The very best of luck to you.

Hissy · 27/06/2018 20:40

Yup eloise and it’s already cost her tens of thousands, has no easy resolution without causing a great deal of strife, so bad money after bad, but it will work out in the end.

ReanimatedSGB · 28/06/2018 01:01

Think about what you want most - her to pay something, or her to be out of the flat. Then whichever it is, tell her this. You don't owe her indefinite financial support - she's your half-sibling, not your child.

I am a little concerned that your H is telling you to stop fussing and that you don't need the money. I wonder if the rest of your family have always made you the scapegoat, for some reason - and now you have some spare money, they are determined that you don't get to enjoy it but must spend it on propping up this half-sibling. And, if you have been conditioned to believe that you are entitled to nothing and that everything you have must be 'shared', you have picked a partner who also believes that you are the one who must always share, give in, take nothing for yourself...

Original poster
Vanessatiger · 28/06/2018 16:34

Sadly yes I’m the scapegoat of the family and she’s the golden child, at least mother thinks so ...

OP posts:
Daisymay2 · 28/06/2018 17:51

Well mother can keep her then. You have done your bit!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/06/2018 18:30

Again, OP, what isit you want to happen?

Whatever it is your sister isn't going to make things easy for you, but until you've decided this for yourself it's hard to move forward

fuzzyfozzy · 28/06/2018 18:45

Tell your ds that your financial situation has changed, your glad she's been able to live there rent and bills free for the last few years but from September you'll need the income from the flat.
Would she like to start paying £ for her rent and take over the bills or would she prefer to move on.
Giver her a forced choice then it's not your fault.

BrownTurkey · 28/06/2018 18:58

‘Can we review our arrangement with the flat - we would be happy for you to continue to live in the flat for another 2 (?) years, as long as our circumstances allow, but would need you to pay x amount (?the council tax and bills you currently pay maybe). After that time we will be looking to redecorate and rent out for market value and would need you to move out.’ the more notice you can give the less you can be made to look like the bad guy - you’re not.

llangennith · 28/06/2018 19:01

You can’t keep on enabling your sister to take from everybody and give nothing back.
She will never stand on her own two feet when she’s found that threatening suicide or playing the pity card works for her every time.
She’s had two years of freeloading, now it’s time to give her three months’ notice.

Original poster
Vanessatiger · 05/07/2018 06:52

I now told my sister to move. She said she’ll pack up her stuff and move to my parents. Now giving me the silent treatment.
I told her I can no longer afford to pay all this amount every month and losing out on a tenant..

OP posts:
Original poster
Vanessatiger · 05/07/2018 06:54

FYI, I didn’t buy the flat outright, I bought it with a mortgage and it’s hefty. I did put down a big deposit. Paying about £3000 every month plus bills. That my sister never once offered to pay.

OP posts:
Maelstrop · 05/07/2018 07:03

I now told my sister to move. She said she’ll pack up her stuff and move to my parents. Now giving me the silent treatment.

None of this would have happened had she had even a smidge of consideration. She’s brought this entirely on herself. Don’t let your mum freeze you put. No normal person would have done this.

Original poster
Vanessatiger · 05/07/2018 07:06

I don’t know if it’s normal or not. Now they’re making me the villain and I text my sister she doesn’t even reply. I sent her pictures of my children which she usually replied with a smile or “he’s so cute” to nothing at all..

OP posts:
trojanpony · 05/07/2018 07:28

A two bed flat in zone 3/4 is about £1800 with bills.

She is royally taking the piss. I wouldn’t ask her to pay rent she has already declined and will think she is “doing you a favour” or “you’re taking advantage of family and don’t need it”

Just say you are delighted you were able to help her and your niece/nephew so much and also enable her to make great headway on a deposit but your circumstances have changed now and you need the flat back.