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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Evicting my sister who doesn’t pay rent

236 replies

Vanessatiger · 27/06/2018 08:36

Back story: half sister divorced a few years back, left with her SN child. Lived with my parents, was depressed about her situation, was saving to buy her own place.
We were buying an investment property in the central parts of London. She occupied that flat (2 beds and newly renovated), paid no rent. Got herself a good highly paid job, didn’t offer to pay anything, we pay the council tax and associated costs with having the flat. We pay her water and heating. I’m a bit fed up frankly, and she says she’s saving her whole salary to buy the new place. She also buys a few designer handbags meanwhile.

AIBU to evict her by September? To rent it out to a bills and rent paying tenant?
The idea was that she’d take care of the flat, fix things that get broken etc, but last time I went nothing was fixed. Shower door was creeky, dish washer door was loose etc..

She’d have to go live with my parents until she sorts herself out.

I say we’re half siblings because she didn’t benefit from the economic advantage i got from one parent’s family’s side. So my husband and I are much more well off than her.

Help, it feels like I’m going to upset up

OP posts:
Juells · 27/06/2018 10:29

I'm amazed your DH isn't kicking up about it. Or does he think you're managing the flat, and doesn't realise rent isn't being paid?

This could lead to trouble in your own marriage.

ElasticFirecracker · 27/06/2018 10:30

I think it's really easy sometimes for people to take generosity for granted, and then when called out on this to become very defensive.

You need to avoid her becoming defensive because this is what could cause the relationship to break down and prevent things moving forward satisfactorily.

Could you ask her what her plans are, and how she thinks the arrangement is working out, especially since her own circumstances have changed, and that it might be a good time to review the arrangement.

Tell her how you are feeling about the situation in a calm factual way, perhaps mentioning that the investment property is not proving to be that much of an investment to you at the moment.

Just some ideas, hope you sort this and can reach an agreement that will suit you both.

Becca19962014 · 27/06/2018 10:33

I had the opposite with my family. A family member offered me to stay for free with them and I said I'd pay to cover extra bills and their loss of their single persons council tax discount (which was about £200 a month). My family piled in and said I was taking advantage, I was a freeloader and it was disgusting that I didn't know the value of money etc etc. In the end I was expected to hand over all my pay having about £20 a month left after paying monthly bus pass.

The relationship with the family member was irreparable after I left (I lived there a year and she'd expected me to go on holiday with her/to concerts/theatre/cinema and I couldn't afford to and felt I was being sulky not going so didn't herself..) and, well the rest I'd never got on with anyway, but I mourn the loss of the relationship with her - if it had been managed between us it would have been fine, but unfortunately my family decided they knew best.

So talk to her, properly, adult to adult. No passive aggressive crap or beating round the bush or involving other family in it - it's between you it's your flat and relationship with her not theirs.

whattheactualbleep · 27/06/2018 10:34

I'd be kicking her ass out.
Sister or no sister.
Why are you even tolerating this situation op??

She's earning good money while YOU are paying her utilities???

Tell her she needs to be out by September full stop.

Ignore family members or ask if they would like to contribute towards her living expenses instead of you!!!
Can guarantee that will shut them up

Becca19962014 · 27/06/2018 10:35

Sorry forgot - Decide before you talk what you want e.g. Her paying the bills and paying some rent - even if it's a token amount.

Yes it's been two years and it'll be hard but it'll be much easier if you remove other family members and put aside the guilt you feel (I know the last is easier said than done!)

Katgurl · 27/06/2018 10:35

Oh god she's like my sister. Also complicated emotions for me there; guilt, worry, etc.

My sister lived in my mother's house for over a decade and despite being in her 40's when she finally left, behaving like a teenager. She never lifted a finger to help, moaned about dinners, didn't pay for anything or contribute in anyway despite earning 100k+. Like your sister she had designer clothes as well as three horses, flash car etc. When she became accidentally pregnant my mother told her it was time to leave as it would interfere with my mothers practice, she decided she wasn't going to bother as she couldn't afford a mortgage in an area which was as upmarket.

She's finally gone and now somehow seems to be weasling her way back in, has convinced our mother to convert the house and I believe she will have my mother moved out of the main part if she gets her way.

I am blue in the face telling my mother she is doing her no favours enabling this behaviour. I'll say the same to you. Ignore what your rellies say. They are subscribing to some dynamic that has probably existed for decades; resentment that you have it easy and she has it tough. Nobody has it easy and that's the truth. Everyone has it tough and needs to find a way to get through that. You have been massively generous and she is not even grateful, just feels entitled.

Tell her she's welcome to stay and pay bills & rent. You bought the place as an investment. If you're want to be very kind, tell her you will phase it in; from July she pays bills, full rent is due at the beginning of September.

MadeForThis · 27/06/2018 10:37

Hinting isn't enough. She obviously thinks that you have loads of money so this isn't an inconvenience to you. If she has always been supported by your mother then it's kind of understandable.

You need to have a discussion with her that she has to pay her own bills starting immediately. If you want her to pay rent then that should start too.

Why would she buy her own property when she can live for free? I'd want to see evidence of savings before I continued to subsidise her rent.

If she's not saving I would give her notice to leave. 2 years is more than generous.

If your family disagrees then tell them to rent a flat for her and pay her bills. She has never been your sole responsibility. You have been incredibly generous to help her for 2 years.

She is now taking advantage.

MrsPicklesonSmythe · 27/06/2018 10:37

Hi x, sorry to have to do this but you've been in the flat now for 2 years. In that time we have spent £x covering your rent and bills. I'm sure you'll understand that this can't continue. The property was purchased as an investment and whilst we have been happy to help you get on your feet but now that you are we can no longer continue to cover your rent and bills. We will need to come to an arrangement whereby you can continue to live there for xx of market rent of xx and take over the bills, otherwise we will need the property back by 2st September for paying tenants.

Niceties, niceties, all the best, done.

FizzyGreenWater · 27/06/2018 10:37

Tell her - you're not 'stasying for free' - I'm paying for you.

I'm PAYING out on this flat when I could be earning from it.

So 'you' aren't saving for that property - I'm putting money towards it every month, in the form of the council tax and bills YOU don't pay.

I can't afford to do that any more, so you need to start paying or I am going to have to ask you to leave.

I want a lump sum of xxx from your savings now to cover the next six months. (or she will promise but not do it).

Then I need you to pay for fixing stuff. I will arrange the work doing, YOU will pay.

If this is no good for you - you need to leave in 3 months.'

Thebluedog · 27/06/2018 10:41

Just bloody tell her ffs!

Dear sister, either start to pay rent and bills, or find somewhere else to stay.

And don’t under charge her rent either, find out what the going rate is for rent on a similar place, and charge her that.

MoreAndLess · 27/06/2018 10:41

I agree with posters suggesting that you get all the facts and figures together before speaking to her. I'd also suggest that you have a clear plan of what you want.

I think I might give her a little longer than September though...but maybe not.

Does the child go to a local school? Might that be an issue?

JohnnyKarate · 27/06/2018 10:50

Tell her she needs to start paying or will have to move out. You haven't even asked her yet. Hints do not work with CFs.

Hissy · 27/06/2018 10:54

Hinting is never enough with people who think the world owes them a living.

You need to give her notice that as of a certain date, you will be setting rent and tenancy on a formal legal basis, that she's getting a preferential rate as she is family, but that as of X date she needs to confirm that she will either pay £XXXX amount per month for a term of X months to start with or, or to move out.

No she won't like it, CF never do like their entitlement being taken from them, but it's a situation that can't be sustained indefinitely. You should have set a limit on the free period, you should have set a rent when she started work.

Lucisky · 27/06/2018 10:58

If you get her to agree to mates rates, you are essentially giving her the go ahead to stay in the flat and she may never move out. A cheap flat in a good location - what incentive is there to move on? This property will then never earn you any money. You need to have a timescale, say one or two years, she pays a lower rate and then moves out, or else she starts paying the full market rent straightaway if she wants to stay longer or permanently.
If you fall out over it, so be it. She's the unreasonable one, not you.

trulybadlydeeply · 27/06/2018 11:00

You're worried that the relationship won't be the same again... surely that's a good thing? What is the current relationship - seems to be sponger/doormat (no offence, OP) at present. Surely that relationship isn't one to preserve?

Outline what you are offering in an email, do not do anything verbally. You have done her a massive favour over the last two years, she's got to actually be an adult now and house herself and her child.

BrexitWife · 27/06/2018 11:00

I would tell her that unfortunateky you need a rent to be able to carry on keeping the flat.
So either she pays (at least electricity/heating and some rent) or you will have to find someone else to rent the place (and she will need to find somewhere to live).

I mean what you are doing isn’t just helping with having somewherebto live. You are happy nearly everything bar the food!

ohfourfoxache · 27/06/2018 11:07

Anyone who sees you as a villain needs their head examined

FatBarry · 27/06/2018 11:12

Mate, she isn't ever going to move out whilst you are paying for everything for her. Why would she?

MrsPicklesonSmythe has it in one and provided a very nicely worded message to her.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 27/06/2018 11:12

Anyone who sees the OP as a villain needs to put their hand in their own pocket and give the OP the money she is losing on the flat, and the money for the bills she is paying!!

Babyblues052 · 27/06/2018 11:16

If she can't afford to stay in London on 60+k a year then she will have to move out of London.

This is a grown ass woman!!! Regardless of if she didn't have the same dad who had money, she has money now!!!

She a sponger!!! Honest to god this scenario is ridiculous, she's an adult she needs to start acting like one and stand on her own 2 bloody feet. Getting her rent and bills paid for her when she's on 60k is beyond taking the piss.

sunshinesupermum · 27/06/2018 11:16

I think it's really easy sometimes for people to take generosity for granted, and then when called out on this to become very defensive.

This is my experience

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 27/06/2018 11:18

My guess: this is a case if miscommunication....

Perhaps your sister has no idea that you need to get an income.....

Perhaps she thinks I'm only on 60k....my dsis has 2 million income a year so therefore doesn't need the money.... With no clear conversation she can imagine /suit herself what she believes and acts accordingly....

TestingTestingWonTooFree · 27/06/2018 11:19

She’ll never move out voluntarily. Charge her rent or let her leave.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 27/06/2018 11:19

She's had 24 months..... She should have saved best part of 80k....

jessicasmummy04 · 27/06/2018 11:23

You have subsided her for two years which is more than a lot of people would have done and you should definitely not feel guilty for it!

Just speak to her and tell her your financial circumstances have changed and you can no longer afford to pay the bills and that you will need to start gaining some income from YOUR property.

If you can afford it I personally would calculate my expenses for the property and add an a bit on top and charge her that for rent. Also make sure you draw up a proper rental agreement.