Evicting my sister who doesn’t pay rent

[Vanessatiger]

Back story: half sister divorced a few years back, left with her SN child. Lived with my parents, was depressed about her situation, was saving to buy her own place.
We were buying an investment property in the central parts of London. She occupied that flat (2 beds and newly renovated), paid no rent. Got herself a good highly paid job, didn’t offer to pay anything, we pay the council tax and associated costs with having the flat. We pay her water and heating. I’m a bit fed up frankly, and she says she’s saving her whole salary to buy the new place. She also buys a few designer handbags meanwhile.

AIBU to evict her by September? To rent it out to a bills and rent paying tenant?
The idea was that she’d take care of the flat, fix things that get broken etc, but last time I went nothing was fixed. Shower door was creeky, dish washer door was loose etc..

She’d have to go live with my parents until she sorts herself out.

I say we’re half siblings because she didn’t benefit from the economic advantage i got from one parent’s family’s side. So my husband and I are much more well off than her.

Help, it feels like I’m going to upset up

I think for a family member I would happily let them live rent free if I was better off than them. BUT I would absolutely not pay any bills and might consider a tenancy agreement outlining who was responsible for each type of repair.

To me that seems like a middle ground where you're still being very kind but not out of pocket and resentful.

Please try to remember that your upbringing and luck of birth is not your fault and nor should you feel guilty for it. By all means be kind to others but you haven't done anything wrong.

I won’t be going to the lawyers, i know she won’t refuse to leave but she’d feel hurt and probably huff and puff and our relationship won’t be the same again... :(

I’m just fed up subsidising her I suppose whilst I see she pays next to nothing. Well i hinted it’s getting expensive keeping the flat and she just stays mum..

You are NOT unreasonable!! I think it’s a joke how people think they can treat their family like sht and it’s ok ( I am referring to your sister and all the other relatives who are criticising you treating you like sht)

Paying the bills and letting her live rent free was very kind of you and your husband. If she can afford to buy herself designer handbags she can certainly afford to pay you, or someone else rent!

That nonsense about only wanting to live in certain areas really riles me up - everybody else who lives in the real world has to take the cost/benefit trade off of where they choose to live so it why shouldn’t she.

Then she’d feel resentful I’m better off than her. I think i feel guilty that her child is severely SN, got divorced, financially worse off ... i just thought I’d help her out but then she just took all for granted.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable at all.

But, I am curious as to why you call her your half sibling because she didn’t benefit from an inheritance?
Either you have the same parents or you don’t!

Same mother different dads..

If you have no formal agreement not sure how you can evict her easily.

If there's no formal agreement, and the OP is down as paying bills and council tax it'll be alot easier than normal probably, could even be a case of asking them to leave and changing the locks with no notice.

OK so she earns 60k and has been living rent free for two years so she isn't doing too badly. I agree that she needs to leave. Give her plenty of notice but be absolutely firm. You've essentially gifted her tens of thousands of pounds in lost rental income and bills etc.

Any relatives who have the audacity to say you are being mean to chuck her out can be told they are welcome to house her instead! Jeez!

Definitely give her a leaving date. You've helped her enormously for two years!

She’s taking the piss, OP. What about your feelings in all this? You’re talking about other people’s opinions of you and how she will resent you, but no one seems to give a shit how you feel. Do you not think your resentment will affect the relationship anyway and you’ll still be left with no income? At least you’ll have some control over your property and income when your brat of a sister moves out. Also, it sounds like there’s an undercurrent if jealousy from the people telling you to let her stay. Maybe resentment that you have an investment property?

I'd ask her to pay a mate's rate of rent every month or move out. Also need a timeframe of when she'll be ready to move out to her own place. I'd get her to sign a lease too.

I think 60k would go quite far in London when you pay zero rent and zero flat bills!

Tell her now that she's had enough time to find her feet and get a head start on saving up, you need her to pay rent and cover the bills from now on. Offer her a reduced rent if you're feeling charitable, but make it clear the gravy train has reached the final stop, and if she wants a free ride she'll need to seek it elsewhere.

Not paying her own bills is beyond taking the piss.

I'd tell her that it hasn't worked out as an investment, so you have to sell it. If you don't want to cause trouble in the family, I probably would sell it, and buy elsewhere. You've had your nose rubbed in 'no good deed goes unpunished', so next time you buy an investment property get proper paying tenants. Family always mess you around, unfortunately, because they feel entitled.

If you're from the prosperous second family, she'll have huge resentments towards you, so in her head it's "good enough" for you to be losing out financially. Keep that to the forefront of your mind when dealing with her. I suspect that this hasn't just happened, she thinks you owe her.

My suggestion - before you go to evict her (and I'm in no way saying don't evict her), have your figures printed out. How much rent you could make per month from the flat/apartment. How much the council tax is and water etc. Show her that because she has been living there rent free for 2 years, you are not getting this income. Show her that the upkeep of the flat was her responsibility (loose doors in the shower/dishwasher etc.) as she wasn't paying rent.
Tell her that she has X number of months (perhaps give her to the end of Sept to leave) as she is family and it is coming to the end of June and you will need to bring the flat up to a standard that is suitable to rent out so access will be required as soon as possible.
It will for a time change the dynamic of your relationship with her but if it is written down in black and white there isn't much that can be disputed.

£60K is more than enough to privately rent! A nice 2bed in a good area is about £1800pcm - her take-home pay is, what £3500 a month?

People charge their adult children rent to live with them and you’re here allowing your adult sister to live in a flat you own rent and bill free. Ridiculous. Give her the ultimatum that she either starts paying rent and bills or she moves out. You’re not a charity.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with someone else recently which was along the lines of: It's not her job to try to guess what you want. It's for you to communicate your thoughts and feelings to her.

I agree that she 'sounds' like a CF and can definitely afford to support herself. However, who wouldn't want to live rent free if that was on offer?

I think if you value your relationship, have a gentle chat with her. Explain that you can't continue to let her live there for free and that you're concerned about the work that needs doing. Tell her how much rent you want and when. Give her notice of this change and say you completely understand if she needs to leave.

I would also stop talking about her to other family members.

So you're being guilted into continuing with this, by family members that don't take any responsibility for her or her situation?

I'd be telling everyone that thinks they have a right to tell you you're being mean that they can cough up the council tax and bills and rent in that case. When they say no, tell them what they tell you. That theyre being villainous and mean.

You need to set a deadline.

It would be unfair to turf her out giving only a few months' notice, bearing in mind that you have let this situation carry on unchallenged for the last 2 years.

However clearly it cannot continue and she needs to either buy her own place (assuming she's saved for a deposit) or start paying a reasonable rent. Either way unless she plans to move out fairly quickly, she'll have to pay rent until such time as she does.

I would write to her and lay out the above, giving her two options and that she has until the beginning of September to decide what she wants to do. But as of 01/09/18 she will be responsible for rent and bills and subject to a proper tenancy agreement.

That way you are giving her a reasonable bit of notice of the financial changes - and the option to go to your parents straightaway if she wishes.

Just sit down and talk to her. Say that you are feeling like she is taking the piss. Bring up the broken elements of the flat, the fact she pays no rent or bills and hasn’t for 2 years. Explain that you want to help her (AND HAVE!!!!) but that you are growing resentful. She should pay all of the council tax, all of the bills and at least a contribution towards the rent (50%?). If she finds this unfair then tell her she is taking the piss and needs to leave. Being more fortunate than someone doesn’t give them the right to use you, and if you don’t address the situation you relationship will become irreparable anyway due to your own (understandable) resentment.

I would ask her how much she has saved so far and what her target figure is going to be and how long does she think it will take to reach that target figure?

From that information work out how long you are prepared to give her.

Also stop paying the bills. I’m assuming you must be a multi millionaire to be able to afford this.

If you want to help the child there are so many ways you can do this without giving his mother free rent.

Now I’m the villain for kicking her out according to some family members

Tell said family members that, if they believe she should be subsidised, it's their turn.

£60K may not go far in Londo but that's still a very good salary.

Whatever other family say I would ask her for some rent and give her an idea of what the going rate is in the neighbourhood so that she can see she's getting a very good deal. Designer handbags indeed!

If she doesn't want to pay it then she should move back in with parents if they are willing to have her without paying towards her upkeep.

No matter that you and your dh are well off - you have been generous enough for letting her stay rent free AND paying costs of flat for two years already. Good luck

I agree with sandandsea. Surely it’s not an either/or scenario. It might suit you both to have her paying a little below market rates - say 20%. You wouldn’t have to pay estate agents’ fees. You wouldn’t need to pay for references etc. But you have to get it on a commercial footing. That includes a tenancy agreement and inventory etc. She needs to start paying her own bills.

My bil rents out our flat on this basis. It suits everyone.

If she refuses to this (still a great deal for her) then she is definitely being a cf and one of the other complainants can subsidise her!