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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School play ethical dilemma - do you think this is fair?

203 replies

Sixerseconder · 22/06/2018 22:55

I was just wondering if I could fish for opinions on whether or not this situation is fair. I’m feeling rather conflicted about it, even though it’s my child who benefits.

My dd is 11 and in Year 6. At her school, the two year 6 classes join together to do a play, as one of their end of primary school celebrations. In recent years, the play has been a musical.

My dd is a really good actor, I would say one of the best in her year. She won a school competition last year where all the kids in her year recited a poem from memory - she did a funny one by Roald Dahl and she got to perform in front of the governors. She’s also had major roles in all the previous school plays. She’s confident and she’s funny. I’m not just saying this as a biased Mum - I fully recognise the many things she is absolutely terrible at, including anything sporty. She can’t draw either. But when it comes to exuberant acting and making people laugh, she can do it.

The problem is, the one thing she is shy about is singing. She doesn’t have the most amazing singing voice ever, though she can sing in tune, but she is adamantly opposed to ever singing solo in front of other people.

And the school play this year, as it has been in recent years, is a musical. For this year 6 school play, they held auditions (for previous plays further down the school the kids were asked to write down their top 3 choices of parts and teachers allocated them, my dd always ended up with a big part). And these auditions were singing only, and took place in front of the whole of year 6 and all the year 6 teachers. The children were told they could either sing a song on their own or with some friends, but had to sing at least a few lines solo.

Dd decided not to do a singing audition. I obviously wasn’t there, but dd tells me that almost every other child in Year 6, including all the other girls, auditioned. Many of these kids were clearly terrified of singing in front of so many people, and many couldn’t sing very well or in tune, but, unlike my dd, they faced their fear and did it.

However, when the parts were allocated, my dd was given the main comic role - it’s a role that had a lot of speaking lines, and didn’t have many solo singing lines, and those it had the teachers told her she could sing in a group rather than on her own. She’s in every scene, she loves the role, and she’s so good at it and so funny (I’ve seen a dress rehearsal as I’m helping put costumes and props together.)

But... many of the kids who actually sang by themselves to audition, and who were very shy, and sang very quietly or a bit out of tune, have been given rubbish parts. Two of them don’t actually have any lines, and just follow around my dd (they’re playing her servants, which rubs salt in the wound, somewhat...)

Many of the mothers of the kids in her year are really unhappy with this. They think the auditions were a stitch up and the teachers had decided who would play each part before they even held the auditions. And they don’t think it’s fair that my dd gets a huge, fun part when she didn’t have the courage to audition. I’m not really sure how to respond when I hear these whispers/insinuations, because, on one level, I can see how good my dd is in that part, but on the other hand, I can see the injustice of it.

So, what do you think? Should my dd have been given the main comic role because of her natural acting talent? Or should she not have been given a major part because, unlike other kids who probably have worse voices and far less confidence than her, she couldn’t pluck up the courage to do a solo singing audition?

OP posts:
user1485342611 · 24/06/2018 20:50

The point I was making, re the Maths exam analogy, is that it is accepted that certain children excel at certain subjects, or at sports, but when it comes to more artistic things there seems to be this attitude that 'every child should have their turn'.

OP's child is excellent at acting and didn't audition because she's aware she's not good at singing and most of the parts required a good singing voice. The person casting, knowing what a good actor she is, gave her a non singing part because sh'e is a good actress and could carry the part,.

Why would she choose an inferior actress who had auditioned for a singing part.

Artistic talent isn't some kind of 'ooh anyone can do that'. Let the talented kids have credit for it.

The OP's daughter was being modest and realistic, not a conceited brat. Some parents really need to get a grip.

rosesandflowers1 · 24/06/2018 21:27

The point I was making, re the Maths exam analogy, is that it is accepted that certain children excel at certain subjects, or at sports, but when it comes to more artistic things there seems to be this attitude that 'every child should have their turn'.

I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that lots of people still don't really respect the arts. It's seen as simply a fun thing rather than something people might take seriously by a lot of parents. As such, young people who are genuinely talented and good at it are expected to give way to other, less talented children who don't really need the experience - or even want it.

enike · 24/06/2018 22:36

I think if your child attends drama classes or singing classes or painting classes, the teacher would prise them and give them confidence, finding something what is really special about the child

but if it comes to the public representation, the best ones are selected

just imagine how traumatic would be for a child who would be selected because his/her mother thinks he/she should have some bigger part and pushed for it and then it would be a public disaster ..... it would be more painful for the confidence of the child IMHO

just sign up your child to some extra classes of their interest and then they will slowly gain confidence and they will become better and better

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 24/06/2018 22:58

Oh I dread this competitive parenting happening whenmy DDs are older.

I loved acting and would've taken it up if it wasn't for my visual impairment. Loved it in school though - my last ever one I played Scarr Smile

I have outedmyself here if anyone knows mebut oh well!

sadiekate · 24/06/2018 23:39

I literally do not see the problem. Your daughter is good at acting. Why shouldn't her talent be celebrated? Do other parents want their kids to be given parts out of pity?
What kind of lesson would that be to teach a whole load of kids - that talent doesn't get you anywhere, and the job shouldn't go to the best person? And that jealousy and sniping rather than honouring someone's talents are how grown ups behave?
When she's famous, they'll all be coming out of the woodwork saying how proud they were of her in school.

moira123io · 25/06/2018 00:02

It's obviously unfair, but they want someone who can act/remember lines/carry the play. The issue becomes how the other parents and their children will now treat your daughter.

Ihuntmonsters · 25/06/2018 00:06

But the issue isn't that the OP's dd got a good part. The issue is that the school told all the children that parts would be given out based on audition and then gave a significant role to someone who didn't audition at all. Especially as they also rewrote the part to suit her by removing the requirement to sing. If the teacher had said that school would decide who got what part based on their knowledge of the children that might still have left the OP and her dd vulnerable to accusations of favouritism but it would have been much more honest. Not fair to make children jump through stressful hoops for no reason at all.

Fresta · 25/06/2018 07:42

Maybe there wasn't another child who was suitable for the role? Just because they auditioned doesn't doesn't mean they should get a good part- auditions are just as much about finding out which children are not going to get certain parts as a bout who is.

Pengggwn · 25/06/2018 07:58

What kind of lesson would that be to teach a whole load of kids - that talent doesn't get you anywhere, and the job shouldn't go to the best person? And that jealousy and sniping rather than honouring someone's talents are how grown ups behave?

Giving the part to the best person who auditioned would not teach the children the above at all. It would teach them that you can't win unless you try. It would teach them fairness. This situation is teaching them the exact opposite of that, and ensuring that they won't bother next time.

RhiWrites · 25/06/2018 07:59

f your child is interested in acting, they'll have their chance when they get to a stage where the teachers are genuine specialists

I agree with this. But it's about more than getting to act.

Children have a very strong sense of justice. They want things to be fair. And they want their turn or chance to shine.

Most of these children won't have a career in drama and won't pursue it beyond school. But when they look back on their school experience a handful like OP's daughter will have memories of starring roles in school plays and the others won't.

OP, you're in a bind because you know that your child was chosen because of favouritism but you didn't want to deny her the fun of the big role. So there's very little you can say to anyone who challenges it.
"yes it's not fair but I once they'd given it to her I didn't want to ask them to take it away again."

halcyondays · 25/06/2018 08:04

Sounds like they picked the best person for the part. Do parents complain when the best players are picked for sports teams?

Pengggwn · 25/06/2018 08:16

But the type of unfairness you're talking about is "not everybody has the same amount of talent."

No, it isn't. It is that some children had to audition for a part that was then given to someone who wouldn't do the same audition. It is blatantly unfair. Nothing to do with moaning about some people being more talented.

Pengggwn · 25/06/2018 08:18

Do parents complain when the best players are picked for sports teams?
I'd complain if there were try-outs and the one child who refused to do the try-out got picked to be team captain. Doesn't matter how good they are - they should try out like everyone else.

ReanimatedSGB · 25/06/2018 08:36

Oh FFS putting parents on the audition committee would be an utter, utter disaster. Lots of parents wouldn't do it, either because they couldn't spare the time (work reasons, not enough childcare for other DC, etc) or because they have no interest in acting, or hate committees. So you'd get the pushy stage-school type parents, the parents acting out their own thwarted fame dreams by insisting on huge parts for their DC when their DC actually don't like performing or are desperately shy; you'd get the earnest SJW-type twats insisting that everyone should have a turn and (again) giving big parts to kids who can't cope with learning lines and don't want to, and then you'd have the one or two manipulative cunts who just want their own way and to be seen as important.

rosesandflowers1 · 25/06/2018 13:02

I'd complain if there were try-outs and the one child who refused to do the try-out got picked to be team captain.

She didn't refuse to do an audition. They ran out of time for her to do an audition, but as they knew she'd be good for the role and none of the auditions were relevant to that role anyway, she got it.

Pengggwn · 25/06/2018 13:58

Dd decided not to do a singing audition.

Sounds like she refused to me. The audition was a singing audition.

MargaretCavendish · 25/06/2018 14:08

As someone who was lead in their P7 school play, I can't help but feel there's a lot of emotional over investment here. It really wasn't a big deal. It didn't change my life, and it isn't a particularly important memory because I was only 11 years old. It was fun, but that's about it.

Yes, maybe it's because I'm not yet a mother but I was that kid, but some of the hostility in this thread aimed at not adults but children really upsets me. I always used to get the big roles in primary school plays; I was also, particularly fatally, the only person in my year to pass the 11+. Looking back, I can forgive the fact that other kids were horrible - we were 10 - but that their parents were nasty to a child is just incredible. They used to make snide comments about me deliberately so I could hear and a group of them made a point of laughing at me coming last in sports day. I can't imagine that now we're all adults not being the narrator in the school play has seriously damaged any of my peers, but I guess a few of them might have suffered from having parents who thought it was ok to take out their own frustration on an actual child.

rosesandflowers1 · 25/06/2018 14:08

Sounds like she refused to me. The audition was a singing audition.

Her role contains essentially no singing. Obviously a singing audition wouldn't be relevant at all.

It's fairly clear that some students held the understanding that auditions and auditions only were to decide roles, which is obviously not the case. They were to scope out singing talent for the more musical roles. That's a miscommunication on the part of the teachers but not unfair; it makes sense.

Her DD was happy to do a poetry audition, which would be more relevant to her role. But as the teachers would know more about their acting than their singing, they prioritised the singing auditions and ran out of time, so based some of their decisions on previous knowledge.

The results are that a very difficult acting role with no singing in it has been given to a talented and reliable actress. The three best at singing have been given the role of the protagonist with a lot of singing in.

It was poorly handled, I suspect the teachers weren't very clear communicating and you can hardly expect young children to consider how much sense a singing audition for an entirely acting role makes when they're excited about a play.

But it doesn't seem unfair.

Paddington68 · 25/06/2018 14:23

Cancel the whole thing and let the teachers drink wine.

FizzyGreenWater · 25/06/2018 14:29

Yep I think it's unfair and a bad call by the teachers.

It's not about who is the best - or it shouldn't be.

The performance doesn't exist in order to fund a theatrical group or win a run on Broadway. It isn't a commercial or professional thing. It exists in order to be part of the kids' education. Therefore, teaching them stuff is more important than the final quality of the show.

Fairness in the auditions, going through the audition process and them learning how to audition and getting rewarded for hard work is the important bit. That's now been tainted by your DD winning a big part when she didn't audition. So not a great educational experience, and that's the point of the play.

OVienna · 25/06/2018 15:15

@rosesandflowers1

I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that lots of people still don't really respect the arts. It's seen as simply a fun thing rather than something people might take seriously by a lot of parents. As such, young people who are genuinely talented and good at it are expected to give way to other, less talented children who don't really need the experience - or even want it.

I agree with this on a certain level. For the love of God I would have dreaded being rotated through a track and field squad just to 'give me the opportunity' and make the school feel they'd ticked off an inclusivity box.

BUT - participating in a school play can be a great opportunity for a child to find out if they're any good or not. It's a very particular sort of thing, unlike many sports, and it's not that easy to create an opportunity for yourself later in life experiment with it. It seems a shame not to give as many people as possible that chance, on another level.

OP just count the weeks off at this point. Are many of the same kids going onto secondary with your DD.

Pengggwn · 25/06/2018 15:18

rosesandflowers1

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's 'fairly clear' at all that the auditions were to 'scope out' singing talent. I think auditions should be assumed to be auditions, and parts should only be given to those who auditioned. If there were non-singing roles available, why is the OP's child the only one who gets to have one without an audition? Wouldn't it be fairer for all children to be able to audition for that particular role?

blackteasplease · 25/06/2018 15:20

The mothers complaining should get a life!

Cinderella2018 · 25/06/2018 15:23

I was more just wondering how I should respond when other parents question the casting quote openly

Just shrug and say yes, you thought it was odd, and that they should have a word with the school about it.

If they continue, just say you weren’t involved with the casting.

MrStarkIDontFeelSoGood · 25/06/2018 15:28

You and your DD personally have done nothing wrong and have nothing to apologise for

But

If I was another parent I’d be furious. Sounds like exactly the stitch up they think it is, particularly as your DD is always the lead.

Very awkward for you but imagine how you’d feel if your DD is as good as you say but another child came along who was better and she never got a look in again

In my high school the same girl was always the lead it’s just not a fair way of doing things with kids