AIBU to think that Purplebricks don't actually need to know whether I'm married?

[borlottibeans]

All I want to do is book a fucking viewing!!!

The only options are Mr, Mrs, Miss or Dr. I was very tempted to put Dr but didn't want to have to keep explaining to people that I've faked a PhD out of spite.

JessieMcJessie, no I am not. I am aware it has been around for a long time. But I find it offensive personally. Surely I am entitled to feel that way? I feel you are married or not married and this 'ms' is sort of non-human imo - it is like you are neither and nothing. Oh and btw I have an immediate relative with MS so I am not insulting sufferers, just saying that 'MS' reminds me of that. That's all.

NobodysMot Really? Way to attempt to devalue and invalidate my feelings. To me, that is what it feels like. The more you militantly push and attempt to FORCE it on people, the more offensive it is. To me, you have just proved why I dislike it, because of self-centred and pushy people like you. As long as your type are at the front pushing it, many won't accept it.

I'm a fairly adamant "Miss" (for myself), but I was on the PB website recently and was very surprised to not see "Ms" as an option. It's a very standard address now! I had to fill in a form online recently and could have chosen from a few "lord", "lady" etc options, "rev", "dr" and "Mx". I was very impressed with the selection!

Interesting that you feel that one’s humanity is intrinsically linked with marital status Salemblackcat. I would separate the two completely. When looking at a being and deciding if it is a dog or a person, I generally don’t feel that knowing its marital status is at all relevant. Yes, only a person can be married, but you don’t need to be married to be a person.

And of course you are entitled to feel that “ms” is dehumanising. You’re entitled to believe that the Queen is a lizard. Doesn’t mean that I am not entitled to comment that your view is odd and out of kilter with most of society.

I know i sometimes have an issue with being too literal, but when someone says to me;

“Hi, i’m mrs smith”

They might as well say “hi, i’m married and my husband is Mr Smith”

That is where my brain goes. That your marriage and husband is your identity.

@salemblackcat, your post makes no sense. You are not the judge of whether a person is either mrs married or miss unmarried. Millions fall in between these two camps. As there is always an option of "mrs" from the drop down menu, you are covered, so what have your feelings got to do with anything? How can u decide that Ms is dehumanising?! What absolute nonsense. It is invalidating to look at a drop down menu and realise that despite being far from rare wanting Ms, it is not there. I am not a miss and Im not a mrs. So for you to tell posters that your feelings are relevant is so self-indulgent that yes, it is hilarious.

I agree with jessiemcjessie, being unmarried is not what is dehumanising!!

Im neither young, nor married, and i cannot signal either youth or marriage in a title. However i feel independent and proud of that. Miss would not reflect how i feel about being unmarried.

I think posters who dont get that Ms is at the very least the equivalent of mr and also, as a bonus, gives us the same opportunity to hide our age/marital staus are not over burdened with intelligence.

your view is odd and out of kilter with most of society.

You can’t say things like this unless you have statistics to back up the fact that “most of society” use “Ms”. Everyone I know goes by Miss or Mrs. I’ve actually heard the use of “Ms” ridiculed before.

yes it's ridiculed but by whom?

Married women? So does that ridicule prove that there's no need for Ms?

No.

Does it prove that ''Society'' is married women???

One doesn't need statistics to realise that not all women are married. Women have children. Women grow older. Women Divorce. Women want privacy.

So the fact that some dinosaurs ridicule ms proves jack shit.

NobodysMot

Christ, no need to be so aggressive. I didn’t say it “proves” anything, I was just pointing out that your claim that the other poster’s opinion that she liked being called Miss or Mrs was out of kilter with society was not substantiated. And I used my personal experience to point out that everyone will have different experiences of what “society” does, and you can’t generalise or make sweeping statements without evidence to back them up.

Sadly I would not trust a young male estate agent to not want to try to seek a date if he thought you were a single woman.

First and last name and a contact detail (email or phone number) is all they need.

@crispysausagerolls the out-of-kilter view that I was referring to was the view that “Ms” is “dehumanising”. I am sure that there are lost and lots of people who dislike it, choose not to use it, think that others should not use it or object to it strongly, but I am pretty confident in my view that most of society does not believe that it is “dehumanising”.

Fora
Seriously? Just becsuse they are doing business for a single female the poor male estate agents cant control themselves and are impelled to try it on?
So women should pretend to be married to keep these uncontrolled men at bay?

I am quite capable of dealing with mem without pretending to be someone elses 'property'. And have never ever felt the need to have to agree to every Tom, Dick or Harry that asked me out.

Where on earth do you get your idea that all male estate agents are like that?

Back when i was 25, and looking to sell my flat and buy a house, you had to go to an estate agent and look at their wall displays, register to recieve paper brochures through the mail etc.

No online stuff. That was fairly new and rightmove and the like didn’t exist.

I walked into more than one estate agent to inquire. In more than one estate agent, everything i asked for more details about was sold or under offer, even if it wasn’t marked as such. The agents had not one property suitable for me to view.

Titles online are probably just the modern equivalent way of separating out those young, single female timewasters and serious buyers who are married and have a husband to provide the financial back up.

Because the importance of an estate agent needing to know a woman’s marital status and not a man’s wouldn’t be anything to do with sexist views that unmarried, young single women aren’t actually serious or capable of raising funds to buy a house...

I don't use any title ever. When forced (net a porter- thats you- if a suitable religious title isn't available- I like Bishop- then I go for Doctor).

The thing which puzzles me most is the number of posters who are astounded that people feel so strongly about titles, because it's a topic which comes up with monotonous regularity, must be every month or two, with the same arguments.

The thing which puzzles me almost as much is that new companies will have forms which don't include Ms as an option.

I can accept that Aldi probably just did a direct translation from Herr/Frau, and most of my European colleagues don't understand the difference between Ms and Mrs, despite the number of impromptu lectures explanations they have received on the matter.

I would prefer online forms to not have title as a compulsory field, as many people prefer not to use one. If an organisation really needs to know your sex or your marital status (and apart from medical or some financial things, very few need to know, they just want to build a marketing profile,) then they should specific ask for that information. There's no legal status attached to honorific titles like Ms/Miss/Mrs and Mr, so they don't necessarily tell organisations the information they expect.

I don't use any title ever. When forced (net a porter- thats you- if a suitable religious title isn't available- I like Bishop- then I go for Doctor).

But why ? Are you offended by your own title? I don’t understand the problem with having a title, I don’t understand why a title would be upsetting to someone. And I actually think picking Bishop or Doctor is extremely cheeky - you haven’t earnt the right to do so!

But why ? Are you offended by your own title? I don’t understand the problem with having a title, I don’t understand why a title would be upsetting to someone

Because titles are associated with certain social expectations.

Mrs: respectable married woman
Miss: young unmarried girl or sad old spinster
Ms: bitter divorcee or militant hairy legged bra burning femininst.

I am none of those. And yes, i do find the judgements attached offensive. Plus I can’t think of a single situation where a title is relevant- the only times i use a title is on those compulsory drop down boxes.

By your logic, should an unmarried woman not pick mrs because “they haven’t earned the right”?

I am not miss, mrs or ms. Selecting one of those is as correct as using bishop or Lord.

Perhaps if we start a campaign for women to pick the more outrageous titles websites might start to make it optional to state title, or introduce a “no title” option.

and I was accused of being aggressive! For trying (and failing) to make the Miss or Mrs brigade see that they are leaving swathes of women without a title and that this issue is not about their feelings.

A lot of I'm all right (Mrs) Jack

reallyanotherone

Of course if you aren’t married you shouldn’t put “Mrs”. Just like if you are a female you shouldn’t tick male on a form. It’s factually inaccurate.

I completely understand the stereotypical judgements that come along with the titles, but you don’t have to associate yourself with those horrible cliches. The suffragists/suffragettes didn’t like the negative connotations of being women, so they just changed how they were perceived, they didn’t seek to change what they were called.

Also my “earnt the right” comment was because a doctor works for 7 years at university to become a doctor. It’s a very special and sacred job title and people shouldn’t be allowed to just call themselves one! Even for something meaningless!

I've earnt the right to be Ms at this point! Financially Independent and 100% responsibility for my DC. I've earnt the right not be a Miss.

And factually I'm not a Mrs

Crispy, on the one hand you say that those who aren't doctors shouldn't use the title doctor (and I agree they shouldn't have to to make a point) but then on the other hand you're saying it's just words and change how the words are perceived. So within your post there are two incoherent arguments at odds with each other.

I do agree with the second part of what you're saying though, Ms is the only title which is factually correct for everybody so the women who object to it should get over their perceptions of what they think it means.

Some people read Ms and think bitter, alone, spinster.

When somebody tells me they're offended by Ms I think financially dependent, internalised the patriarchy.

Ms for everybody is the only address that avoids 'grouping' of women in to different camps.

@notanotherone, I'm curious, are you a reverend? I thought Ms covered all bases.

I agree with your categorisations by the way, in how Mrs, Miss and Ms are likely to be perceived. A lot of women have children without being married and I think the perception of 'Miss' could change over time if mothers continued to use it/werent' given the choice of another title.

NobodysMot

My initial post re titles was directed at the comment about someone not wanting to be any of the three options - not Miss, Mrs or Ms. If you want to be Ms then by all means, rock on with it! 😊

I see the title of Doctor of Bishop as different because it’s a professional title which is earned, rather than a gender/marital status. Getting married isn’t an achievement in the same way as being a doctor! I am just being naive i suppose - I would like for everyone to be comfortable in themselves enough to just accept who they are when it comes to filling in a form. By the way I do think a reasonable solution would be to add “Master” or similar for unmarried men and have them go through the same.

I get that. Anybody can have a disastrous marriage so it's not a title that I would feel had to be earnt! I sometimes get called Mrs, and the reason I don't correct people is because they don't care either way. Doctor is different.

I get a bit [ARGH] when married women get a buzzy little glow out of being a Mrs, and are so offended by Ms. They see it very differently from how I see it though.

As for unmarried men having to choose master or mister, that would be funny actually. Master conjures up images of little lord fauntleroy and men 40+ having to legally use an address of Master would bring in to sharp focus how awkward it can be for women not to have the address Ms to pick from - without being categorised.