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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder why anyone votes tory?

893 replies

traciebanbanjo · 18/06/2018 21:10

All they seem to represent us keeping the rich, rich and the poor, poor. There doesn't seem to be that many rich people so why do they get so many votes?

OP posts:
siwel123 · 23/06/2018 19:49

And a higher wage given may i add

bellinisurge · 23/06/2018 21:09

At my little girl's school assembly they were asking children about who their heroes are. One little girl said "my Mum because she works when no one else in the family ever has". Not a dry eye in the house after that one.

itneverrainsitpours · 23/06/2018 21:52

Because they want too.....

bellinisurge · 23/06/2018 22:00

@itneverrainsitpours - given the family (I know them) hard not to think that.

malificent7 · 23/06/2018 22:43

I think that welfare should be a pot where EVERYONE should be able to dip into in their time of need to make up a minimum standard of living wage.
People who sneer at claimants should question if they want the safety net removed of they get Ill, redundant, have an accident etc.

siwel123 · 23/06/2018 22:45

No one is saying people can't claim benefits in time of need are they?

HelenaDove · 23/06/2018 23:35

The reason people were reluctant to do extra hours on tax credits was because the extra hours on offer were intermittent and inconsistent.

HelenaDove · 23/06/2018 23:37

Tax credits came about because of jobs paying £1 an hour, £50 a week I saw plenty of these advertised in the job centre in the late 90s after the abolition of the wages councils.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/12577696.Abolition_of_wages_councils_and_threat_to_the_lower_paid/

HelenaDove · 23/06/2018 23:40

siwel you were having a go at a lot of people on the Lush thread and having a go at Lush for tarring all police officers with the same brush and saying how we should take into account the cuts they have had to endure.

But they were cuts that you voted for.............so how do you square that circle.

HateIsNotGood · 23/06/2018 23:49

If there are any jobs going my way helping get the crops out of the ground that the EU workforce apparently did I'm happy to step in.

NW Devon - not the flatlands of Anglia - so the ground isn't suitable here for mass-agri-production, but if our country is short, I've no problem with getting down and dirty.

HelenaDove · 23/06/2018 23:49

15th December 1992.

" ONE in four workers who approached the Scottish Low Pay Unit in the

past year was being paid below the legal minimum rate set by the wages

council.

This fact was highlighted in a ''Food for Thought'' survey carried out

for the pay unit by Roy Wood, senior lecturer at the Scottish Hotel

School in Strathclyde University.

The report comes at a time when the Government is intent on pushing

through Parliament legislation which will abolish the 26 wages councils

still in existence.

Wages councils were established in 1909 with the support of Sir

Winston Churchill who told the Commons it was required to protect

low-paid workers from unscrupulous employers.

But the present Government denies the lower paid require this

protection. Michael Forsyth, Minister of State at the Department of

Employment, who is responsible for the Trade Union Reform and Employment

Rights Bill which covers the abolition of the councils, wrote in a

letter date December 10: ''There is no good reason to believe that the

abolition of wages councils will lead to widespread reductions in pay .

. . It is of little help to workers to saddle employers with

bureaucratic requirements which do nothing to encourage enterprise and

initiative.

The letter went on: ''Most of the workers covered by wages councils

are not poor; many work part-time and live in households with two or

more earners.'' Mr David Stark, the recipient of the letter, and an

official of the Transport and General Workers Union, however does not

agree with the Minister.

He said: ''Unfortunately there are a number of unscrupulous employers

who will take advantage of the absence of wages councils to cut wages.''

The author of the survey, Mr Roy Hood, said: ''I believe wages will

decline. Some employers will cut the hourly rate and there will also be

a general decline in the real value of wages over a period of years.''

The Scottish Low Pay Unit believes that existing evidence does not
back up Michael Forsyth's assertion. It points to numerous workers who

are not covered by wages council rates and who earn even lower than the

average of just over #3 an hour set by the councils.

It has examples of security guards who earn #1.70 an hour and have to

work 100 hours a week to earn a wage. It points to young receptionists

who are paid as little as #1.50 an hour, and the worst example of low

wages which the unit has on its file is that of a third-year apprentice

car mechanic who is paid #1 an hour.

Morag Gillespie, of the Scottish Low Pay Unit, said: ''There is

considerable evidence which suggests that once wages councils are

abolished wages will indeed be cut. The latest checks show that one in

10 workers covered by wages councils are underpaid. Take away the

protection of the councils and the wage levels could plummet even more.''

More than 200,000 Scottish workers are covered by wages councils

including those in hairdressing, retail trades, hotels, and restaurants.

Wage rates set by councils vary between #100.81 for a 39-hour-week in

the button manufacturing industry to #120.90 in tailoring.

David Stark, who is a member of the aerated waters wages council,

explained how the councils operate. He said: ''The councils are made up

of equal numbers of employers' and workers' representatives plus three

independent members who are appointed by the Secretary of State for Employment. Both sides put their case for a new wage rate to the

independent members then retire to separate rooms. ''Independent council

members can call either side back in and ask for further information.

The independent chair then puts their proposals to the full council and

it is voted on by both sides. This means that the new rate is set by the

independent members.''

At the recent aerated wages council of which David Stark is a member,

the council agreed an 11p hourly increase giving new hourly wage rates

of #3.08 -- #123.20 for a 40-hour week. He said: ''We are fortunate that

in this industry most of the large companies have trade union agreements

and the council rate is only a benchmark. But in many other industries

where there are no union agreements employers will exploit the absence

of the council.'

Michael Forsyth does not agree. In his letter he writes: ''Without the

councils, wage rates will adjust to suit local economic circumstances .

. . businesses themselves are best able to judge what they can afford

and what levels of pay are necessary to recruit and retail suitable

employees.'' The Government expects to guide the legislation through

Parliament within the next nine months and be in a position to abolish

the councils a few weeks later.

The Low Pay Network, which is campaigning to save the wages councils,

believes it is a contradiction for Mrs Gillian Shepherd, Employment Minister, to have overall responsibility for this legislation when she

also has responsibility within the Cabinet for women's issues.

It points out that the industries covered by the councils ''tends to

employ significant proportions of women especially on a part-time

basis.''

Winston Churchill, in his capacity as President of the Board of Trade,

was responsible for introducing wages councils and had this to say on

the subject. ''. . . where you have what we call sweated trades, you

have no organisation, no parity of bargaining, the good employer is

undercut by the bad, and the bad undercut by the worst . . . where these

conditions prevail, you have not a condition of progress, but a

condition of progressive degeneration.

But then Sir Winston always was a renegade!"

Graphista · 24/06/2018 00:15

Have to agree, people were reluctant to temporarily increase their hours over the 16 hrs wrt tax credits, and definitely hated doing so on an as hoc basis, because it led to overpayments which were paid weekly - but then recalled in large lump sums! Which many people didn't know you could request weekly reduction to repay over a period of time.

It wasn't just employees who hated this.

Where I live before UC came in it was VERY common to see jobs advertised stating "do not apply if you require min 16 hrs" - mind you the same employers were often offering 2 part time roles where 1 full time role could have filled their needs.

Now here we're starting to see "do not apply if you've recently applied for UC" I'm guessing because UC wait period means that employers are learning that employees just starting their UC claim are struggling to find funds for transport/clothes for work, AND having to take time off to attend UC appointments - because if claimants don't attend they're sanctioned! Even if the reason they are saying they can't attend is BECAUSE THEY'RE WORKING! Crazy!

HelenaDove · 24/06/2018 00:25

YY Graphista I said that would happen on a thread i started last summer.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3001033-to-think-that-some-employERS-will-get-pissed-off-with-Universal-Credit-too

Xenia · 24/06/2018 07:14

We had to move for work which I suspect is the biggest issue of all for many people as there genuinely is work in the SE even though rent even in a shared room is quite expensive. I have the example of my son who was a postman for 3 years and they found it hard to get people and had high staff turnover and that's even with an awful lot of EU immigrants from Romania etc doing the job around here; now he drives a van for a supermarket company (and that one would not suit some parents unless splitting childcare shifts with a partner as he often works the weekend and has days off in the week although he now does 5 days of work in 4 by the way so gets a full time wage of about £22k for 4 days of work a week which suits him very well). Postman hours were what you would expect - early start but early finish and also working on Saturdays when one of your 5 days falls then. That was also about £22k. His driving licence has helped him get those jobs - I don't think postmen or people or whatever we call them these days (and plenty are women) have to drive but it helps as they often do van shares etc. One of my student sons is working in a London hotel this summer.

Now if we went up to NE England where I am from I think it may be harder to find jobs even as post man, delivery driver etc.

There is a new ad campaign about how you can do agricultural picking jobs standing up when doing strawberries, not bending down all day - to illustrate the job is not as bad as people think by the way although I am pretty sure it will still be seasonal so not easy if you are trying to plan a stable life.

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 24/06/2018 08:05

No one is saying people can't claim benefits in time of need are they

No that's what it was created for. To cover short term after a job loss and in times of ill health.

However tax credits and income support changed it from need to want. So many wanted children, to not work, to do the magic number of hours to net the maximum in benefits. All physically capable of working but didn't want too. That's not a need but a selfish want at the expense of others.

siwel123 · 24/06/2018 08:42

I didn't vote for police cuts.
I voted for the Tory party who decided that's the action to take.

Again why keep bringing the lush thread up?

topcat1980 · 25/06/2018 08:42

"So many wanted children, to not work, to do the magic number of hours to net the maximum in benefits. All physically capable of working but didn't want too. That's not a need but a selfish want at the expense of others."

That's just a gross oversimplification, and one which fits your iniquitous and ill thought out narrative.

Only about 16% of all households claim tax credits, and they have been successful in pulling people out of poverty but also in getting people back to work who would not have been able to otherwise because of difficulties in coming off benefits.

The anectodtal "don't want to work" more hours thing is just middle class judgeyness without knowing all of the circumstances.

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