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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder why anyone votes tory?

893 replies

traciebanbanjo · 18/06/2018 21:10

All they seem to represent us keeping the rich, rich and the poor, poor. There doesn't seem to be that many rich people so why do they get so many votes?

OP posts:
Dorsetdays · 22/06/2018 15:42

Still deflecting then...Grin

SweetSummerchild · 22/06/2018 15:44

The rest of you are just pathetic and vacuous.

What was that about nobody being called stupid or thick on this thread?

Time to stop I think

And yet you just can’t.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/06/2018 15:44

Actually it is hilarious that on a thread questioning why people vote Tory, that you have come here, after all the Corbyn/Labour slagging citing whataboutery

It might be, yes, if I didn't criticise Tories too - and without the constant need to divert those criticisms by dragging in what someone else has done. I could probably find some of the many posts where I've done exactly that, but I don't think there'd be much point, do you?

The suggestion that anyone who finds fault with JC must be a rabid Tory conveniently ignores all those who've voted Labour before, but feel they can't do so with JC as leader. I realise this might not suit some, but while we live in a democracy that can't be helped

HelenaDove · 22/06/2018 20:19

siwel So you agree with workfare. You were all over the Lush thread complaining about how Lush were tarring all POs with the same brush Yet you are prepared to do the same with ppl who claim benefits.

There was also a po on the same Lush thread complaining about Lush tarring all POs with the same brush and then went on another thread denigrating single parents.

No wonder relationships between police and some communities is at an all time low.

Classism is even more ingrained than i thought.

Oh and you also need to look up the definition of the word volunteer Try the Oxford dictionary. There is no such thing as making people "volunteer"

This is something that happened in my home town this week and is currently being minimized as a disturbance.

www.liveleak.com/view?t=kk6Dl_1529418012

siwel123 · 22/06/2018 20:26

@Helena.
I don't agree with forcing people to work for companies etc while on benefits. What I think should happen is people on benefits that are capable of working and currently on JSA to get involved in community projects or help out charities etc.

I don't tar everyone with the same brush. I know that there's multiple different benefits. What I'm saying is people who are physically able to work and not claiming carers allowance, disibilaty benefits etc but JSA are made to get involved in community projects and charity events that will benefit the local community not big corporations.

I don't see why you bring up what I said on another thread. That is about the police this is about the Tory party and why I support them.

siwel123 · 22/06/2018 20:29

Also funny @Helena that you call me out not the other poster who first also mentioned the idea Confused.

Classism? How do you know my class because I vote Tory? And posted in support of police?That's extremely judgey and profiling.
For your information I grew up in hull in a working class family with friends and family claiming benefits. But hey I vote Tory so must of grown up posh or be posh in your eyes then.

siwel123 · 22/06/2018 20:31

You can also try the dictionary for anti - semitism which perfectly describes Corbyn and the Labour party.

HelenaDove · 22/06/2018 20:32

Because it demonstrates your hypocrisy thats why.

Not surpised at all though.

HelenaDove · 22/06/2018 20:34

Oh you thought that comment was all about you Bless.

I meant the classism displayed by certain authorities.

HelenaDove · 22/06/2018 20:35

Fab posts Graphista.

HelenaDove · 22/06/2018 20:36

Did i say who i vote for in any of my posts? So you are allowed to make assumptions then.

siwel123 · 22/06/2018 20:41

Well seems as you put my name at the top yes I did, like any reasonable person might Confused.

Surprised at what though?

Did I say you what aprty I think you voted for? Nope. I was responding to your classism post that in your eyes if I have no clue about people on benefits I must be a rich person then.

But hey carry on...

HelenaDove · 22/06/2018 20:47

So you would have been happy with your friends and family doing workfare then?

You suggested that people could be made to do things that support the community. I hope you are not including things that may bring people who dont really want to be doing it into contact with vulnerable people because that could lead to abuse.

Im not saying people would necessarily be abusive but if you make someone do workfare that risks them being involved with working with vulnerable people then an abusive situation could occur due to resentment building. Its too risky but hey its cheaper so certain people wont care.

siwel123 · 22/06/2018 20:54

Workfare was working for private corporations that benefited by not being staff.

If my family and friends were physically able to then I don't see the harm in getting involved in community projects.

There's lots of projects that they could help with in my local area right now and any help would be appreciated.

Charity shops for example. Or we have a big clean event that always need people to help. Or the community gardens. Or helping in the local homeless shelter.

So yes I would be happy if family and friends were made to help the local community if they were on JSA as long as it meant they weren't taking actual jobs away. I disagree with Tesco etc using them as Christmas temps.

But anyways regardless, I vote Tory as I feel they're the best option for me and my family. Whether you agree or not doesn't matter hugely to me as you have your vote so have a right to choose who you want to represent your family be that Tory, Labour, greens, lib dems or even the raving Looney party who have some excellent policies Grin

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 22/06/2018 21:20

I think workfare in the community and for charities has many benefits.

It helps the community and good causes, gives people references, maybe new skills and would stop those that claim as they don't want to work.

Done properly I'd have no issue with it. Most genuine claimants wouldn't have an issue giving back , the only ones that wouldn't are the ones it would be targeting,

siwel123 · 22/06/2018 21:25

@BoxsetsandPopcorn.

Precisely. Well said

Graphista · 22/06/2018 21:48

If it's "done properly" then why can't the people doing the WORK be PAID properly too.

Where I live there's a separate issue too - the voluntary roles are OVERsubscribed, there's too many volunteers for charity and community projects.

I've relatives that are volunteers at 2 of the places, they had to go on waiting lists.

It's a deprived but strong community here, I'm on various local Facebook groups too and whenever a voluntary role is advertised there's loads of response - it gets quite competitive!

There are workshy people but they're very few & far between ime.

Most folk I know working less than full-time, let alone out of work altogether - WANT to work full time, want to improve themselves and do better for their families.

The work ethic is there - but it's going to waste if there's no jobs!

We've lost in the last 5 years:

3 MAJOR employers
Over half the high street chains we had have pulled out
Half as many again independent traders have gone under, inc a cafe that had been going for several decades.

In addition - we've lost transport links to the next big town so that limits when/if people can apply to jobs there.

The hospitals lost several depts - even our a&e has been 'streamlined', some staff were able to move depts or into community roles but for most it meant early (unwanted) retirement, transferring to the hospital over an hour away, or having their contracts terminated. It's a shameful waste of training too!

2 schools have closed - officially they were amalgamated with other schools but that applied far more to the children than the staff. The teachers have retired early or moved to new roles outside the County, but the support staff were screwed!

Quick estimate that's I reckon easily up to 5000 jobs lost!

siwel123 · 22/06/2018 21:57

Sounds tough @graphista.

I understand fully that many people want to work full time.

It's shocking what is happening with the jobs, public transport, nhs and schools in your area.

I understand that not every area needs volunteering roles or community projects but it's just an idea and not perfect at that. And as I said I don't agree with workfare where real jobs are not given to workers but people being forced to work there.

Xenia · 22/06/2018 22:06

It should be becoming a non issue (workfare) because we are getting back the fullest employment since the 1950s and recent changes are making work pay so we may not need much more workfare than we already have. There is a lot people can do without contact with others anyway if that were necessary.

I suspect there are some areas with not enough staff and others with too many and we somehow need to solve the mismatch around the country better than we now do.

siwel123 · 22/06/2018 22:13

@Xenia.
Workfare where people are made to work for big corporations should be banned as it's taking jobs from people who could be permanently hired.

However a revised version of workfare where people do charity and community work that directly benefits the local community has a lot of benefits. Even doing 1 or 2 days a week of community work would be a good thing.

Graphista · 22/06/2018 22:22

Thing is - it's particularly bad where I am yea, but as someone raised as an army brat, I've friends all over the uk, all over the world come to that.

My friends in other parts of the U.K. Are telling me while it's not QUITE as bad where they are it IS bad, worst they can remember it being in our lifetime!

And mostly their parents are agreeing. And the parents do remember life under labour in the '70's

Thatcher at least served well those sectors she approved off and knew to keep core voters on board - And knew better than to mess with the nhs! She privatised bloody everything! But she largely left the nhs alone - I don't think altruistically, but because she understood it was a HUGE vote loser.

Whatever my personal feelings re the Tory party I do think

UC
Trying to privatise the nhs - I don't think they'll succeed I hope not.
Brexit - a poisoned chalice, whichever party was in dealing with this was SCREWED from the beginning!

In combination will bring them down.

And I also don't think they couldn't deal with those things without the party suffering if they had a stronger leader.

Thatcher would have gone into EU TELLING them HER conditions for leaving and Brooking no nonsense!

Would still know to leave the nhs alone.

I think she'd have made UC even worse though, as when she was leader I don't think she really 'got' what it was like to be sick, disabled, unable to find a job.

Just my thoughts.

HelenaDove · 22/06/2018 23:03

YY Graphista We had a local department store close last year after trading for over 140 years.

Dorsetdays · 23/06/2018 07:11

I fully support the idea of those on JS being required to do some form of community work, particularly where it’s a longer term situation. Not only does it give something back it also provides references, potential new skills & opportunities.

This isn’t about slave labour, it’s about not getting something for nothing which in some cases seems to be th expectation now. JSA was always intended to be a short term prop not a lifestyle and I don’t believe that anyone who is genuinely looking for work would disagree with it.

I say this having tried to recruit to an unskilled job for over 6 months now without luck. We’re offering £24k for a 37 hr week, final salary pension, 28 days holiday plus public holidays and flexi time of a further 9 days, full healthcare, critical illness insurance and PHI and the local job centres have literally laughed in our faces! We’ve even offered to pay to put someone through their driving test/lessons as it would be beneficial to drive (vehicle provided). Not one application even when we have suggested work trials so people could try the role and see if they like it without it affecting their benefits. Says a lot I think.

MismatchedStripySocks · 23/06/2018 07:57

I’m not embarrassed to vote Tory. There are too many people out there who vote alternatively and sneer at people who think differently, I don’t do that. My husband and I always vote differently (me Brexit, he remain) but we just respect each other’s views and don’t drag the other down. I think it shows great maturity and intelligence.

PinkCrystal · 23/06/2018 09:30

But many (not all) people don't sneer at those who simply vote differently. They would not judge those who vote LD Green SMP etc but the reason they judge Tory voters is because they have seen the nastiness of the policies and still continue to vote it. Its not simply as it is a different party and they're all raging lefties. The fact they are intelligent people with a different view does not take away from the fact their vote is hurting others or indifferent to others suffering. The judgement on 'undeserving' poor etc.

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