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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder why anyone votes tory?

893 replies

traciebanbanjo · 18/06/2018 21:10

All they seem to represent us keeping the rich, rich and the poor, poor. There doesn't seem to be that many rich people so why do they get so many votes?

OP posts:
SweetSummerchild · 22/06/2018 09:34

Just an observation:

“I could never vote tory” is never argued with.

“I could never vote for Labour under Jeremy Corbyn” is seen as ill-informed (at best).

SweetSummerchild · 22/06/2018 09:48

I will explain why I could never vote Labour under JC. It’s not to do with him, it’s not particularly to do wiht his policies. It has everything to do with what I see as the ‘power behind the throne’.

The current Labour ‘support’ organisations have developed a nasty reputation for being misogynistic, vile bullies. Many would say this is undeserved, but I’ve seen this firsthand.

On a disability support group a fervent JC/Momentum suppporter was posting the usual memes about tory MPs voting for benefits cuts while claiming expenses. I’d add that none of the MPs expenses came close to McDonneell’s (who happens to employ Seb Corbyn but that’s beside the point). Anyway, ALL of the tory MPs singled out were women. The comments made about them were vile and misogynistic - everything that these ‘types’ of supporters are accused of in the right-wing press.

I made a comment about the language used and misogynistic tone of the comments. It was passed off with the excuse ‘it’s just becasue wer’re passionate about the murderers in the tory party - they deserve it’. They then turned on me. One ‘passionate JC supporter’ - I could name and shame but won’t - made some truly vile remarks. The moderators of the group were very slow to deal with it - citing the old ‘passions run high’ argument.

Every time this issue has been made to Labour leadership the response has been mealy-mouthed and woolly. Suspensions from party membership have been very late in happening. Whether its misogynistic remarks, anti-semitism or angry transactivism, it’s the same story.

Someone said earlier in this thread ‘it’s my opinion so there’ (or words to that effect). It is my opinion that hiding behind JC is a pretty nasty bunch of men. I spent a large part of my adult life living in Labour heartland in the coal mining communities in the North East, and I’ve seen too much of how some of these people operate. I cannot and will not support a party whose direction is so heavily influenced by them at present.

Like I said, just my opinion...

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 11:12

"I could never vote tory” is never argued with, it often is on here, lets be honest.

"The current Labour ‘support’ organisations have developed a nasty reputation for being misogynistic, vile bullies. Many would say this is undeserved, but I’ve seen this firsthand."

And this doesn't occur in the Tory party? Lots of evidence for this.

"Whether its misogynistic remarks, anti-semitism or angry transactivism, it’s the same story."

The Anti Semitism thing is ridioculous. Its funny how leavers n the Tory party were talking about Soros being some shady individual, pulling the strings of international parties weeks before the mural scandal broke yet this was never called. Corbyn even celebrates passover with jews and its not enough, because they are the wrong sort of jew.

FGS

Justanotherlurker · 22/06/2018 11:25

The Anti Semitism thing is ridioculous.

So ridiculous that JC admits that there is a problem in the party, but lets play "what about the tories"

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 11:27

" JC admits that there is a problem in the party, "

Yes but the accusations toward Corbyn to do with a FB comment on a mural from 2012 were ridiculous, especially when the Soros stuff had gone on in the media just weeks before and nothing was said.

LeahJack · 22/06/2018 11:35

topcat, Soros is one individual. He is the richest man in the world, yet appears to have the left (who are supposed to represent the working classes precisely against people like him) and has profited in the past off things which have caused others a great deal of misery. Anybody who uses massive wealth to influence politics outside of democracy should be up for scrutiny whether they are Arron Banks or George Soros.

Being Jewish does not exempt him from scrutiny or criticism any more than it makes Robert Maxwell or Bernie Madoff nice blokes.

Scrutinising the actions of one individual is very different from stigmatising an entire race.

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 11:50

Ah but the whole painting of Soros as a manipulator of people, for the purposes of a shadowy international cabal, and accusing him of putting people before profit is exactly the same sort of thing the nazi's did.

In fact the same thing that was complained about with the mural.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/06/2018 14:03

Interesting article here concerning JC's efforts - or lack of them - to address anti-semitism: www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/10/labour-mps-back-antisemitism-measures-rejected-by-corbyn

As so often, it's not really about individuals (unless we consider the vile Ken Livingstone, who I believe to be still there only because he knows too much), but about the general thrust of policies and attitudes

"Conveniently" apologising to jewish leaders for not having done enough just before you meet them is all very well, but not much use when it's merely lip service

Dinoraw · 22/06/2018 14:07

Because they're selfish. They only care for themselves and their wealth.
No compassion etc.
But I can get the stereotype of a lot of people on jsa aren't willing to work and revieve handouts..
My partner is on jsa however and he's gutted about it. He's trying to hard to get a job so it's not all that.
Just the rest of us get screwed while we work still struggling and the rich bathe in their kidney.

Dinoraw · 22/06/2018 14:07

I got no clue how money changed to kidney in my phone 😥

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 14:17

There are issues in the Labour party with antisemitism, but its not as large as its made out to be.

The Board of Deputies et al are not the only Jewish groups, and their stance that they take any criticism of Israel as antisemitism makes them very difficult to negotiate with.

Strange though, there are Jewish groups that support Corbyn, are they the wrong sort of Jew?

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 14:22

Anyway, it seems a bit much for people to use anti semitism as a reason, when the amount of anti islamic, racist and yes anti semite stuff said by Tory party members ( one councilor whom is a former convicted IRA terrorist).

Its a smear.

Justanotherlurker · 22/06/2018 14:35

Its a smear.

Bingo!!

bellinisurge · 22/06/2018 14:51

@Justanotherlurker Beat me to it!

Dorsetdays · 22/06/2018 15:04

Topcat. At you referring to Gatland? If so, what was she convicted of again?

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 15:04

Oh dear are we at that level.

Time to stop I think

Just as a note though, there is no evidence that Corbyn himself is antisemitic, but the most tenuous of evidence is used to attack him.

Meanwhile the Tories have a forgien secretary that talks about picanninines with watermelon smiles, about the president of Turkey fucking a goat and has been caught lying on several occasions professionally and personally. As well as many other incidents and many other cases in the party among MPs and councilors of inicdents

But nooo, its Labour that are bad.

On this very thread utterly counterfactual bullshit has been repeated by people who are anti Corbyn and anti Labour, major argument failures and fallacies repeated ad nauseum and nodded along with by the posters who are on one side.

Xenia offered balance, I attempt to use facts to back my arguments.

The rest of you are just pathetic and vacuous.

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 15:07

Sorry she wasn't convicted but was exposed as a member.

Funnily enough Adams has never been convicted of anything ( just interned) either, doesn't stop the attacks on him.

Dorsetdays · 22/06/2018 15:12

Topcat. Before you point the finger at other posters for their ‘counter factual bullshit’ you really should make sure your own comments are factual first....

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 15:15

Oh so she wasn't copnvicted but she was an IRA member, more than you can evidence for Adams? Yet its ok to attack one and not the other.

Oh and the counterfactual bullshit, there has been so much of it here, its ridiculous.

But I note, get one thing slightly wrong and then you try to use it to discredit me.

Funny though that you never called anyone up on their descriptions of Adams/Corbyn and facts.

Displays your credulity.

Justanotherlurker · 22/06/2018 15:17

Oh dear are we at that level.

We are at that level when you have resorted to whatabout the tories and used "smear" unironically.

As for the "wrong type of Jew" comment (nice leading language by the way), maybe ask why Corbyn would meet with a group who say Stephen Pollard is not Jewish, or is that somehow related to the Tories as well?

Dorsetdays · 22/06/2018 15:21

I wasn’t the one stating they used facts to back up their argument. I wasn’t the one stating I had evidence re Adams either.

Stop deflecting, your argument is flawed as it’s based on inaccuracies, so you discredit only yourself.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/06/2018 15:22

I can think of many things I've criticised the Tories for, but at least I believe that they're their problem and their job to sort out, without feeling the constant need to cry "but look at them ..." and other silly whataboutery

What a pity so many Corbynistas struggle with the concept of their leader accepting responsibility for - well, anything really

Dorsetdays · 22/06/2018 15:26

Puzzled. Hit the nail on the head there.

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 15:26

"I wasn’t the one stating they used facts to back up their argument. I wasn’t the one stating I had evidence re Adams either. "

But you didn't critique, oh and I said try, if we are going to be persnickety about things, thus I didn't claim I was always right.

I love that someone here has posted a point about whataboutery, all of the posts on here critisising Corbyn are whataboutery.

But Look at Corbyn, Labour XYZ.

topcat1980 · 22/06/2018 15:28

Actually it is hilarious that on a thread questioning why people vote Tory, that you have come here, after all the Corbyn/Labour slagging citing whataboutery.