How the hell is it possible to look like this woman??

[Tangled59]

OK I qas having that Sunday sadness feeling and now I'm feeling casually pissed off and jealous because I went on FB and an ad popped up featuring this woman (Tammy Hemsomething apparently).

How is it possible to look like this?! What I mean is is this the result of just working out or what? But how can she get her body fat down so low for the waist, but not on her bum or tits?!

The photos with her partner say it all. He's looking at her but she's looking at the camera.

Where did you get this idea? This thread is not about attractive people, but people who take naked or near-naked selfies.

It's kind of what I was saying earlier, isn't it?

Lots of people have made comments, most of which have been deleted, that her beauty makes her stupid. But there's also been a lot of people ignoring her achievements because she took a "naked, or near-naked selfie."

Why do you think that makes her vapid?

The photos with her partner say it all. He's looking at her but she's looking at the camera.

That's just a typical camera pose for Instagram. I wouldn't really read into it, especially as a lot of her career is based on photos and videos.

I said conventionally attractive. Symmetrical facial features, long thick hair, full lips, big breasts, slim waist, wider hips, big bum etc. She ticks the majority of the boxes of what our society deems an "attractive" woman.

Sure, but these features remain objective only if they're not covered in wildly polarising artifice. That's why the sociological experiments that originally proved objective standards of beauty used photos of completely unadorned subjects. .

That's why the sociological experiments that originally proved objective standards of beauty used photos of completely unadorned subjects.

I think most people can identify someone as conventionally attractive even if they don't find them personally attractive.

DD and friends were looking at a picture of a celebrity once; DD said "I can see why people find him attractive, but I don't." I think it's that sort of principle. Even if she doesn't make you think, "wow, she's beautiful", I think it's fairly easy to tell that she does live up to society's standards of what's attractive.

Can't we appreciate women for what's in their head, and for their intellect. I would hate to look like this young woman because I want to be respected and liked for my intellect, and contribution rather than for what I look like. I struggle with a society that wants young women to look sexualised. It isn't really about how she looks per se, rather about how she is presenting herself as sexualised and almost the caricature of a woman that men supposedly find attractive. It is the antithesis of what women have been fighting for re equality of opportunity and to be taken seriously in the workplace. But on the other hand if she is happy presenting herself like this then I guess that in itself is her choice. Providing she is not being exploited and it's her free will to do this then that's up to her. Which brings us to the argument about whether it's societal influence or free will and all that stuff.

I think she's making a living out of a career in fitness which, as somebody commented earlier, is a booming industry lately.

What does having a gigantic (possibly fake) arse have to do with 'fitness'? . And does she always wear full make up and have styled hair when doing her 'fitness' routine? I know I don't.

"Fitness" is often a substitute for 'narcissism' these days. Oh, it's not that I'm self-obsessed with all these selfies of me posing half naked. It's all about 'fitness' and if you disagree, you're either a jelly h8er or a fat layabout.

Jonbb Personally I want to be respected for both, looks and intellect.

I am not going into a debate about the intellect of the candidates of that show, just mentioning one of the "Apprentice" winners - a very attractive very girly candidate, but qualified doctor and very smart. Woman can be both if they want to! Why should anyone have to chose one or the other? Then it's a personal choice, but the judgments are so predictable and bringing us decades back in term of equality.

It applies to men too, but they are less likely to be described as thick as a plank when they look hot.

Lots of people have made comments, most of which have been deleted, that her beauty makes her stupid.

I'm just not seeing the 'beauty' in silicone filled lips, a vapid expression and a bubble bum. I mentioned above some women who I consider to be beautiful, and this woman doesn't come anywhere close. She looks like a selfie-taking Barbie doll to me. Obviously just imho, but you really need to stop believing that your idea of beauty if everyone else's.

Can't we appreciate women for what's in their head, and for their intellect. I would hate to look like this young woman because I want to be respected and liked for my intellect, and contribution rather than for what I look like.

I think it's very sad that people are incapable of seeing a woman as intelligent or ambitious as committed because she looks attractive.

But looking at this thread you can see it's a sad reality. However, I don't think women avoiding looking beautiful in order to be better respected is fair at all. It reminds me a bit of Legally Blonde.

Women shouldn't have to reject femininity to be valued. People incapable of understanding that femininity is not the opposite of success should be pulled up on it.

And women who hold onto looking feminine or conventionally attractive while being clever and dedicated and motivated at the same time will, eventually, hopefully, challenge the critical thinking skills of such people - which must exist somewhere in their heads.

It is the antithesis of what women have been fighting for re equality of opportunity and to be taken seriously in the workplace.

I think it's what women should be fighting for.

From what I've gathered, she's a very successful woman who loves her family, makes a lot of money and has put a lot of time and effort into her career.

And people aren't taking any of these accomplishments seriously or dismissing them entirely - because she's taken a selfie in her underwear?

Fuck that. It's misogyny, plain and simple. Reminds me of the case with the two teachers where the male one got a magazine deal and kept his job, but the woman teacher got fired.

It's only women who are seen as incompetent if they have desirable bodies that they don't hide.

I think most people can identify someone as conventionally attractive even if they don't find them personally attractive.

The problem here is that you have no idea what sort of weight any one person attaches to presentation.

You (and others) also seem intent on castigating people for making judgements about presentation, when this is exactly what humans are programmed to do. We're lost at sea without them.

I don't mean this to sound bitchy, catty or big headed, but i will say it. When i was her age there weren't all the aids we have today, botox, fillers etc. No hair extensions.....We didn't even have hair straighteners Nobody even went to the gym!!! Just walked everywhere. No idea of my weight, didn't have scales, but probably 8 stone. But you know what, I and many others didn't have need of any of it. Had it all without even trying. Something tells me this girl relys on all the things, many of us had no need of. In other words , we got on with LIVING, not obsessing about the perfect body. Life's too short for all that obsessing. Life passes by very quickly, there's far more worthwhile interesting stuff going on in the world than constantly seeking glorification of your body, like it's the be all and end all of life.

What does having a gigantic (possibly fake) arse have to do with 'fitness'? . And does she always wear full make up and have styled hair when doing her 'fitness' routine? I know I don't.

I was referring to the fact that she competes, as part of a team, has a fitness app and does training regimes when talking about her fitness career, but I guess you'd rather talk about the selfie

In that case, lots of people are working out not just to stay fit but also try and get a body shape they like better. There are loads of workouts now to build up your bum. Pictures like this show that her workout works.

I don't think her bum is fake, honestly. It looks bigger than it is in this picture because of the way she is posing. In others it just looks like she does a lot of squats.

As for the comments about perfectly styled hair etc. obviously in her videos her hair will be in slight disarray etc. She has makeup on if she knows she's going to post these vids. Some setting spray and she'll be good to go.

"Fitness" is often a substitute for 'narcissism' these days. Oh, it's not that I'm self-obsessed with all these selfies of me posing half naked. It's all about 'fitness' and if you disagree, you're either a jelly h8er or a fat layabout.

How many selfies does she have in her underwear again? Honestly hardly any unless you count swimwear.

And, as always, they are mostly promos for either a full-body tanning spray (so as much skin as possible) or the swimwear - so is it really self-obsession or is it just her job?

I'm just not seeing the 'beauty' in silicone filled lips, a vapid expression and a bubble bum. I mentioned above some women who I consider to be beautiful, and this woman doesn't come anywhere close. She looks like a selfie-taking Barbie doll to me. Obviously just imho, but you really need to stop believing that your idea of beauty if everyone else's.

I said that she's conventionally attractive, as stated previously.

Do you disagree that she mainly fits what we call an "attractive" woman?

Also at "selfie-taking Barbie doll"! How does one look selfie-taking in a picture which is literally a selfie? Of course they're "selfie-taking".

Again, I'm curious at the choice of "Barbie doll". Is it because she's blonde, or a comment on her having surgery? Either one is a bit telling IMO.

Good grief is this still going on. I have no idea if any of my comments have been deleted because I haven't looked.

I still stand by what I said though. This is not an image I want to see to young women and teens as something to aspire to. It's not healthy, all this pouting and posing in the guise of fitness. It's just another way for the page three 'thing' to still be allowed but with a top covering her breasts.

roses my daughter is 18, very intelligent apparently according to her Mensa score but sometimes completely clueless with common sense and she has never selfied herself like this. Her peer group of like minded young women also do not pose online in such a manner. They are secure in themselves enough to not need instagram likes.

We want women to aspire to be the best they can be. Not everyone is going to be a doctor, lawyer etc. We need people in the service industries and that includes the fitness industry. Women in fitness can be a great inspiration for other women to develop a healthy, fit, in proportion for them body. This is great but I don't think posing in your athletic wear bra and knickers in sexualised poses that to me are really aimed at men (although I could be wrong) to have an ogle at and to get lots of social media likes is a good message to be sending to young girls who will be our women of the future.

Is this thread the first that you've learned that there are people who don't find this sort of Page 3 style 'beauty' attractive? You're not going to change my mind or convince me that I'm a misogynist.

I was referring to the fact that she competes, as part of a team, has a fitness app and does training regimes when talking about her fitness career, but I guess you'd rather talk about the selfie

Clearly you're a massive fan, but I didn't know she existed until I saw this post. Did a quick Google search and all the pics I have seen are similar - pouty face, tons of make-up, posing in her keks.

As for the comments about perfectly styled hair etc. obviously in her videos her hair will be in slight disarray etc. She has makeup on if she knows she's going to post these vids. Some setting spray and she'll be good to go.

You seem to know an awful lot about her personal routine.

Fascinating....

Anyway, if it's just a 'fitness' vid - ie about being healthy - why the need for make-up? Not just a bit of lippie but a full face, with styled hair too? I mean, most normal women don't do this when working out, do they?

I said that she's conventionally attractive, as stated previously.

Do you disagree that she mainly fits what we call an "attractive" woman?*

Well, I don't know what the 'we' is, and I guess there are some people who like that look, but I don't think it's a look anyone I know would aspire to. She looks fake and cartoonish. The collagen filled lips (I guess you'll be back telling us they're entirely natural) are awful.

Again, I'm curious at the choice of "Barbie doll". Is it because she's blonde, or a comment on her having surgery? Either one is a bit telling IMO.

Nice try there, but no. I'm blonde. But I haven't altered my face and body in an attempt to resemble a doll. So there's that.

The problem here is that you have no idea what sort of weight any one person attaches to presentation.

You (and others) also seem intent on castigating people for making judgements about presentation, when this is exactly what humans are programmed to do. We're lost at sea without them.

If somebody walks in with stains on their untucked shirt, hair and makeup messy and bags under their eyes, I'd say they were tired and in a rush this morning. There's a direct correlation between their appearance and that judgement. Of course, I could be wrong but I daresay it would be a wild story.

If you see a picture of a conventionally attractive woman wearing revealing clothing or underwear and assume she is vapid, stupid or self-obsessed, where's the correlation? Is it that you believe beautiful = stupid, and this is a product of the hideous concept that women either have "beauty" or "brains" (or, in the immortal words of Mrs Wormwood, "books" or looks"?) In that case I'd say you were a misogynist.

Do you think that people that take selfies are self-obsessed? As I said before, it doesn't really take that long. Do you think people that used to have photos taken back in the days where the process was much longer were more self-obsessed then? Or less? If so, why? That's not logical.

Of course Instagram influencers put more time into getting a "good" selfie because it's part of their career. But then we come to a whole new chapter - if it's literally her job, does it make her self-obsessed to do it? I'd say the logical answer is no.

I'm not saying that all appearance-based judgements are bad. But the majority of the ones on this thread are nonsensical at best and misogynistic at worst.

And, regarding your first point; if you give a lot of weight to someone's presentation of themselves, to the point where you're literally relying on stereotypes, I'd say you were far more vacuous than this woman.

How old are you, @clearysclock? Weren't hair straighteners invented in 1910 or something?

I think there have always been people who strive to get an "ideal" body. A lot of really ancient cultures were obsessed with it, and their standards were literally unachievable. More recently it's also a very big thing; I definitely disagree that wanting a body fitting the beauty standards of the era is a modern idea.

I'm just not seeing the 'beauty' in silicone filled lips, a vapid expression and a bubble bum

see, you lost me at "vapid". You finding this woman completely unattractive is one thing, and absolutely acceptable. By publishing photos of herself, she allows people to express their opinion.

Calling her expression "vapid" is unfairly judgmental, and I do disagree with that part - its not a terrible thing to say, but that's still not right.

You have as many men as women showing off their six pack on instagram, and that's a really good thing.

I actually find her proportions a bit creepy.

Perhaps it's to show what Barbour would look like if a person?

I'd love to be slimmer but blimey not that slim!

When i was her age there weren't all the aids we have today, botox, fillers etc. No hair extensions.....We didn't even have hair straighteners shock Nobody even went to the gym!!!

the standards of beauty were different, that's all, but women people even have been using toxic products on their face for centuries, have been wearing uncomfortable clothing to follow fashion, and have been having plastic surgery as soon as it became available. Hair have been curled, ironed and braided, people spent fortunes for their wigs.

When people were starving, the rich were curvy and proud. The western world is fat, and getting fatter, so people strive to be thinner and toned - look at the Royals from many countries.

The standards of beauty have changed, but there's nothing new in using anything you can to fit in with the current fashion.

Calling her expression "vapid" is unfairly judgmental, and I do disagree with that part - its not a terrible thing to say, but that's still not right.

You can disagree away. Just as I can think that that whole 'lips parted/blank eyes/staring at my reflection" facial expression is vapid. Doesn't (neccessarily) mean that the person themselves is stupid, just that they're choosing to make themselves look that way.

Do you think that people that take selfies are self-obsessed? As I said before, it doesn't really take that long. Do you think people that used to have photos taken back in the days where the process was much longer were more self-obsessed then? Or less? If so, why? That's not logical.

Your measure of 'logical' is baseless. There's no comparison between pictures in the 80s, for example, and selfies.

Yes, I do assume they're self-obsessed.

Her peer group of like minded young women also do not pose online in such a manner. They are secure in themselves enough to not need instagram likes.

My DD sounds a lot like yours - fairly absent-minded, though a lot of that is to do with her condition, but also extremely intelligent. She is 16 and goes to an extremely competitive and high-achieving grammar and has won a large amount of awards etc. for what she specialises in.

DD takes selfies. Not in her underwear, but she's taken selfies that show her figure, and lots of her friends take pics in swimming costumes, underwear, or sexy PJ's or whatever. None of them have experienced their grades dropping as a sudden reaction to this. In fact, many of her most high-achieving friends are the ones who post revealing pictures to Instagram.

We want women to aspire to be the best they can be. Not everyone is going to be a doctor, lawyer etc. We need people in the service industries and that includes the fitness industry. Women in fitness can be a great inspiration for other women to develop a healthy, fit, in proportion for them body. This is great but I don't think posing in your athletic wear bra and knickers in sexualised poses that to me are really aimed at men (although I could be wrong) to have an ogle at and to get lots of social media likes is a good message to be sending to young girls who will be our women of the future.

I don't think that posting a picture in your underwear means that you won't have your accomplishments taken seriously is a good message to send to young girls either. In fact, I'd be furious if someone suggested this to DD1 or DD2. My girls will be what they are and, if, one day, they take a revealing pic and post it, they won't suddenly lose all of their accomplishments and character.

Only in the eyes of some people in the world. Which is very sad.

Clearly you're a massive fan, but I didn't know she existed until I saw this post. Did a quick Google search and all the pics I have seen are similar - pouty face, tons of make-up, posing in her keks.

I hadn't heard of her either, as a matter of fact. I clicked on the link someone posted upthread and did a more in depth search of her actual page, rather than Google, out of curiosity.

If you did the same it's immediately obvious. The majority of it is in her bio, for God's sake.

Anyway, if it's just a 'fitness' vid - ie about being healthy - why the need for make-up? Not just a bit of lippie but a full face, with styled hair too? I mean, most normal women don't do this when working out, do they?

There's not much point in styling your hair if you're going to work out.

I think a fair few women will wear makeup if they're going to a public gym, but more importantly, all her pictures/videos are part of her career.

You seem to know an awful lot about her personal routine.

Again, five minutes on her Instagram page would tell you that much. Or common sense.

Look, it's a video of a woman biking, or doing yoga. Her hair is not staying perfectly in place.

Hmm, she's an Instagram influencer whose income is based on her page. Is she going to try her best to look good in pictures or adverts promoting her business? Well yes, I'd imagine so.

Well, I don't know what the 'we' is, and I guess there are some people who like that look, but I don't think it's a look anyone I know would aspire to. She looks fake and cartoonish. The collagen filled lips (I guess you'll be back telling us they're entirely natural) are awful.

I don't know if her lips are natural in all honesty.

I meant as a society, this is what "conventionally attractive" is. I think I already did this, but think about it; full lips, symmetrical face, long thick hair, big breasts, hourglass shape, big bum etc. etc. She just ticks the boxes of what we generally consider to be an attractive woman.

Nice try there, but no. I'm blonde. But I haven't altered my face and body in an attempt to resemble a doll. So there's that.

It wasn't a "try" I'm genuinely curious. You're the second or third poster to call her a Barbie and she doesn't really look like a Barbie doll. She's more hourglass than very tall and very skinny.

So it was a comment about the surgery

Your measure of 'logical' is baseless. There's no comparison between pictures in the 80s, for example, and selfies.

Well, I'm not sure if you've seen my earlier posts, but I think the comparisons you can make are very interesting.

Selfies are quicker and easier and far more accessible. Not comparable really to old photographing techniques, which took much longer. Which is why I ask you this; why do you think they are more vain than people who literally spent hours on the process, when a selfie can take two seconds? That isn't logical. Surely someone who spends less time on pictures than themselves, than someone who spent a very long time, is less vain, if we're going down that route?

Social media also allows you to share them widely, but only if people want to. I don't think posting it to a page where people can scroll past it or just unfollow you is more vain than literally taking out a photo album and making people look at them.

Social media is taken yourself, often entirely for yourself. Do you think it's the fact that people literally just like pictures of themselves that upsets you?

The more you compare them, the more it becomes clearer that selfies have less impact on others than traditional photographs. You don't have to look at them, you don't have to take them. And they're not just more convenient for people around them, but for the takers, who don't have to spend as much time to get a nice photo. From this angle you'd say a selfie is a wonderful advancement in the world of photography.

But so many people are opposed to them. Why?

I hadn't heard of her either, as a matter of fact. I clicked on the link someone posted upthread and did a more in depth search of her actual page, rather than Google, out of curiosity.

But you've clearly become a massive fan, given the amount of time and energy you are taking to defending her and telling us all about her and her daily routine?

Hmm, she's an Instagram influencer whose income is based on her page. Is she going to try her best to look good in pictures or adverts promoting her business? Well yes, I'd imagine so.

Right.

Well then, her job is to sell products to (probably) very young women. So it isn't about 'fitness' then. It's about shilling stuff that nobody needs.

I don't know if her lips are natural in all honesty.

Oh come on. It's blindingly obvious that they are not. Whatever about her arse, those lips are clearly fake.

And if her lips are fake, what else is?

I meant as a society, this is what "conventionally attractive" is. I think I already did this, but think about it; full lips, symmetrical face, long thick hair, big breasts, hourglass shape, big bum etc. etc. She just ticks the boxes of what we generally consider to be an attractive woman.

The 'full lips' and 'big bum' as well as the 'big breasts' and possibly 'thick hair' too have been purchased. Just about any young woman could look much like her if they were prepared to submit to surgery multiple times.

So it was a comment about the surgery

The surgery you claim she's never had?