Staying off work with sick spouse

[Sashkin]

Just posting to see whose expectations are unreasonable here.

Spouse A is off work this week to supervise builders. Toddler came down with 24hr vomiting bug on Thursday night, so both parents were up most of Thursday night changing sheets/cleaning up toddler, and spouse A looked after him during the day on Friday (usually goes to nursery).

A came down with toddler’s bug on Friday night and was up vomiting. Spouse B is working twelve hour shifts this weekend (doctor). Should B have called in sick on Saturday morning to look after toddler so A could catch up on their sleep?

To avoid dripfeeding: Toddler was completely recovered by then, so A was doing normal childcare not mopping up toddler’s sick as well as their own. A finds solo childcare stressful at the best of times, and was in tears on Saturday morning at the thought of looking after toddler on minimal sleep.

B argues that B has done childcare in worse circumstances without complaint, and calling in sick would not be fair or safe on their patients or colleagues (departing night shift doctor would have had to stay to cover B’s shift, ie a 24hr shift), plus B is likely to be applying for consultant job in this trust in next few months so wants to avoid any perception of flakiness.

A says hospital cover is hospital’s problem not A or B’s problem, and should come second to toddler’s needs. A has long resented B’s job requiring evening and weekend work - A is self employed and much better paid than B, and does not see why B is working 60hr weeks to detriment of family life. Similar problems during B’s nightshifts with A angry that B is leaving A to parent alone overnight.

It’s probably obvious which parent I am, but I have tried to be fair to both sides. Would you expect your spouse to take the day off work to look after the children if you were ill but the children weren’t?

I'm a single parent so I have no choice. I've been trying to catch up on sleep for the past 5 years. Sometimes you have to just suck it up and get on with it.

It was a Saturday? What cm/ nursery options?
I imagine they’d have been mentioned by now
And even if there are CM/nursery options they don’t take sick kids and have exclusionary policies for illness esp diarrhoea

Tell A from me. I Work on an acute unit and a doctor ringing in sick last minute with hardly any time to cover, would deem the unit unsafe and all patients high risk.
This has happened seldom because as i'm sure you are aware doctors only ever ring in sick for extreme cases.
When it has happened, it is a panicky situation.

However I do sympatise with your husband because being sick is awful and it will be difficult to watch the toddler while being sick.
In the same respect if your shifts are anything like mine. I come home hardly feeling my feet. The other day it was so bad, I burst into tears lol!
It's an awful situation and I feel for you both.

Sit down and talk. Soon enough toddler will be in school and you will be at a highler level. These stages won't last forever and there will be equally hard and amazing times.
that's for you both. It's testing and you are both working incredibly hard to created a great future.

Understanding on both sides is all this needs.

Maybe a weekend to yourselves?

Last time i had a stomach bug OH took a day off to look after kids.
I was rolling on the bathroom floor groaning in pain with stomach cramps and basically unable to leave the bathroom. No way could I have also looked after the children. Every time I stood up my head span so much I vomited.
I'm no wimp - I almost never go to the doctors and had two babies with no pain relief whatsoever, but I draw the line at trying to supervise children with my head down the toilet.

This is a tricky one - if DH had actually cried at me because he was so sick I would NEVER go into work, but he's only cried in front of me 3 times in nearly 10 years together so I'd know he was genuinely at the end of his tether. I've once taken DS to my parents' house so they could watch him whilst I worked when DH had a 39.8° temperature and crippling headaches but he was in no fit state to look after a baby, I would never have left a 9 month old with him because it would have been dangerous.

It's horrible looking after a small child when you're ill but you have bigger problems than this. If I were A I'd be calling in favours from friends and family to take the toddler for a few hours. Shouldn't be too hard on a Saturday? Then sort out your issues over careers / family expectations etc.

Her dh wasn’t ill wasn’t running an elevated temp,he was fatigued

^^ this is why my OH stayed off work. Because two toddlers would otherwise have been essentially unsupervised all day while I was stuck in the bathroom. It would not have been safe.

Look, there is ill and there is ill. I’ve experienced both. I’ve had really nasty colds with a temp, shivering, achy bones, tired, off food but been able to carry on looking after my kids. And I’ve also had viruses where I’ve felt so ill I’ve had no choice but to drag my collapsing carcass to bed and drench the sheets in sweat for 2 days with a jackhammer going on in my head and vomiting every couple of hours in between sleeping for most of the day.

We do know when we can carry on and when we need to go to bed and most parents will try to carry on parenting if they are able. I don’t see any problem with asking a partner/parent/friend for help if the illness is of the “really have to to be in bed” type.

Those parents who have their own parent as the main childcarer, woukd you expect your mum or MIL to just suck it up and mind your kid while they themselves are vomiting/on the toilet all day?

I’m not sure you would. I would hope that you would also afford your partner the same consideration.

If you use a childminder and there is norovirus going on there, you also would have to stay off and look after your child for the day, so I’m not sure there is any difference between that situation and your spouse having the same issues with bad illness.

If you have a job where you are genuinely scared of getting looked over for promotion because of a genuine request for one day of carers’ leave then maybe it is time to look for a more human employer/working conditions.

Until then if your partner is genuinely terribly ill and having no choice but to suck it up while feeling so shit, then I think plenty of apologies and TLC and sympathy are the order of the day. And to acknowledge that yes, it is absolutely shit for them having to do that.

I think working parents who have a SAHP at home need to remember that when THEY are off sick, they already have the childcarer at home so they can just take to their bed and concentrate on getting better.

some harsh responses here.

The OP was being asked to stay at home and do childcare because the other parent was unwell. I hve asked my partner to do this before and he has! It's not a strange or unusual request. Stay at home parents are also allowed sick days!

Who cares what would happen if B was a single parent? totally irrelevant as B is not a single parent and has a partner there who has a duty of care to their child also.

I can understand why A couldn't miss the shift but it's not a big ask - and it's not about being 'tired' it's about the stay at home parent being too ill to look after a child when there is another NOT ill parent.

You don't call in sick to look after someone who is sick. That is taking the piss and it will come back and bite you on the arse when you need support from your employer or for them to cut you some slack in a crisis. You take unpaid leave if you can't get leave.
If you work according to those rules, you find a solution.

What’s clear from this thread is that essentially NHS working conditions are inhumane. Instead of some people indignantly saying “well, I just have to get on with it” as if implying that everyone else should too, I think they should be getting very angry at the government. Things shouldn’t be this way. Let’s hope this cash injection will go some way to easing the horrendous situation where lives are put at risk if someone rings in sick.

Until recently, I would have said A just needs to suck it up. However, I had horrific food poisoning last month, and vomited violently every 20-40 mins for over 24 hours. It was worse than giving birth. There’s no way I could have looked after DS if DH had left me to it. I couldn’t even stand.

I actually think there isn't a blanket answer to this one.
If one parent was very ill then I wouldn't expect them to parent. For one thing, the child could catch the illness back. For another, illnesses can manifest in different ways in different people. I caught a bug off my son who was a little bit poorly one night, in me, I ended up passed out on the hallway surround by my vomit and diarrhea. DH has to put me in the bath and hose me down. 111 said I had to ride it out. No way could I have been an effective parent that day.

However, if it was just a case of being tired and a bit of a off tummy, then you can still parent.

Don't think he was 'too ill' he was tired...not tired or ill enough he waited up to have a row!

No, I wouldn’t expect anyone to take off work if I was sick and home with a toddler if it was just a bug and not something more serious. I would expect lots of help (eg taking over completely so I could rest) in non-working hours though. My dh has taken off to help me when I was ill with a new baby (like feverish, delirious, recently given birth, needing help with bf) and when I had an operation. But he managed to be away (pre-planned, lucky him!) when vomiting bug hit. I was home with just dd for 3 days by myself. It was hell. I just sat in a pile of vomit at 3am and sobbed. But if it’s what you have to do, it’s what you have to do. He took over and did everything when he got home from the weekend so I could rest.

I've been ill a very long time and still manage to look after our children. A really needs to suck it up.

Oh come on, this isn’t an NHS problem. Its surely how it is with any job where people depend on you and have high expectations.

On my maternity leave I had days where I asked my DP to come home - when I was under the weather, exhausted and looking after a baby. He was sympathetic but generally said no, he couldn’t. But he did recently take some days off to be at home with me after I’d had an operation. Similarly if I was actually a danger to my child because I couldn’t keep myself awake or was hallucinating or uncontrollably vomiting and unable to leave the bathroom of course he would have to stay at home. He wouldn’t have a choice. If I was ill but capable of lying around watching a TV for most of the day feeling sorry for myself but able to supervise and provide food for toddler, no he wouldn’t stay at home. It would be a crappy day but I’d have to suck it up.

I think OP made the right call, but that Lapsedhumanist's posts are excellent.

I'm front line nhs in an acute setting, it is grim at the moment with staffing levels so dire that you can feel exceptionally guilty even taking time off for severe illness/emergency as it will have a negative effect on patients and colleagues. I'm sure other industries are equally unsupportive but the difference of the health and social care is you get into the career to support patients and due to the funding crisis taking time off often does affect on patients.

Only you and your partner know if he was "well enough" to care for your toddler and not sure anyone else can judge that but he obviously feels unsupported. Is there a solution like a nanny agency etc which you can look at for further emergencies?

Could you have a talk in a few days when everyone's feeling better and there's less emotion flying round about what's needed in the next crisis and if there's another way to manage it?

I applaud what Wellthen said upthread. It may be that he's just being an arse. But it may be that if you really do always prioritise him below your job and always have, he is resentful, and I would say legitimately.

It's a stick to beat you with, the patient care. I mean, I was a teacher, so not nearly such high stakes and there was still immense pressure not to 'let down the kids' but also the colleagues, who would inevitably be resentful at having to cover your work on top of their own massively unreasonable workloads.

And yes, the needs of patients are real so I can understand how difficult it must seem NOT to prioritise them. You may have, with your eyes open, chosen to always have the job as your number one. But it sounds like your husband didn't choose the job as his number one, and yet still has to live with that set up. I would resent it too.

@wheezing
Hospitals are running incomplete rotas snd asking staff to break working time directives and contracts to cover for no extra pay, it’s just expected. Wards, clinics and surgical lists are already 2 drs down before the day even starts. When just one person calls in sick it’s a disaster.

Who runs a working place like this? It isn’t just about high expectations, it’s the fact people’s goodwill is being taken advantage of to save money. It’s maddness and it’s putting lives at risk.

Lipstick - why do you keep saying her DH wasn’t ill? If you don’t consider a vomiting bug illness and have kids, heaven help the other kids at whatever school you send yours to.

Could you have a talk in a few days when everyone's feeling better and there's less emotion flying round about what's needed in the next crisis and if there's another way to manage it?

But it sounds as though the OP's husband has quite an entrenched view that he is right, and the OP is wrong on this matter. And he sounds unlikely to shift from that.

The OP seems more concerned & flexible - after al, it's she who's posted here for feedback from AIBU. Which suggests she'll get trampled and made to feel guilty in a discussion even in a calm moment.

Never underestimate the extent of the way women are socialised to feel guilty and give way about their own needs & ideas, and men are socialised to be self-centred and inflexible about their needs & ideas.

Ugh, he sounds tiring. Firstly, of course your child and your job come before him - in practicalities! Secondly, unless he truly believes he is ill enough that the toddler would be unsafe in house with him as carer (which you would know, seeing as you are a doctor) he is being unbelievably selfish. I wouldn't put up with this if it were constant, which it sounds like it might be. Good relationships actually have very few rows. Perhaps consider a Nanny, especially if you are aiming for professional progression soon. Don't put up with misogyny.