To find caitlin moran as annoying as fuck?

[Tangled59]

New articlr in the guardian, going to read now, I'm sorry because shes generally really popular with all my female mates but...I just find her really annoying and disingenuous and anti-intellectual. Is it just me? Her (faux) grey streak also annoys me, as does the face pulling. Anyway i know its mean, but i just dont identify

www.theguardian.com/global/2018/jun/16/caitlin-moran-everything-i-know-about-sex

I wanted to like her. I read How To Be A Woman and couldn't decide whether it was about feminism or whether it was a semi fictional "autobiography". It tried to be both and it was neither, IMO. Whoever said her feminism is "lightweight" is spot on

And yes, the gurning and her girl gang on social media (Sali, Lauren Laverne) really turned me off all of them.

I do think she can write but she is so cliquey mates with all those dodgy journos. Also classic white feminist TM
remember when asked to ask Lena Dunham why there were no people of colour in Girls (which is set in BROOKLYN) she replied "i couldnt give a fuck about that" (or words to that effect - see link below) and then deleted the comment.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/08/girls-twitter-feminism-caitlin-moran

so YANBU!

Read Reni Eddo-Lodge instead!

I really like her stuff and I think she's made feminism more accessible to lots of young women

@Tangled59 of course. I don't think I'm objecting because she's a woman but because she's a feminist. We need those, even the ones we don't agree with, and there's too many people tearing feminists apart for us to do it to each other. Just felt wrong to me. But yes, we can discuss what we want.

I'm baffled by the hair thing though. Maybe she just likes it. There's no deeper meaning behind my hair.

She has a funny turn of phrase, but I see her writing as far too self conscious, it feels like someone who’s laughing at her own jokes, very self congratulatory in a faux self deprecating way.

—far too many selfs there—

I have not read her books, my impression is based on her Times column, so it might be just the her ‘column writing’ style.

To be fair, I'm not sure they are paid bucket loads. I don't know how much a columnist earns- some Big Names who are also MPs or clebs are fairly well paid of course- but your average journalist doesn't earn much. The rate per word for the Guardian and Times is quite low. SH and CM will earn more through appearances, books and other stuff.

CM is on record as saying her badge r streak is natural. SH has set up a charity beauty box scheme for unwanted cosmetics and hygiene products for women.

CM won a writing comp when she was in her teens. She was good back then but like alot of these writers once they get their name out there, the standard tends to slip - think Liz Jones- and it all becomes very 'me me me' as if anyone cares.

I think she's a try-hard.

And the gurning pisses me off not because of how it looks per se, if she couldn't help making that "shocked muppet" face than fine. What annoys me is that it makes her come across as not taking any of it seriously and being incapable of just being herself and being proud of it. It makes her seem like an insecure teenager. I'd rather a feminist in the public eye was a bit more "here I am, get used to it." Say what you like about GG but at least she's not ashamed of being who she is, saying what she wants and backing it up with reasoning.

And yes Haribo should be more like broccoli.🥦

@IHeartKingThistle
And to accuse people on here of being "teenage" is pretty rich.

I think you've inadvertently helped me pinpoint what I dislike about CM.

She teenageifies feminism and the female body, she uses crassness (and btw im not a prude, im all for casual sex, no problem with the word cunt etc) to make up for a lack of in-depth reflection. I think rather than unpicking the stereotype of the "feminine mystique" and trying to explain it or provide a solution for overcoming it, she simply repackages it in a brain-dead attempt at ladette-style humour.

She attempts to befriend the everywoman rather than developing her own set of beliefs and driving them (which is why GG is ny hero). I see her as a commodity feminist, a kind of manufactured, bite-sized and easiky digestible feminist for the capitalist generation, a thinker to normalise patriarchy, to make women feel reassured and not alone, but without going so far as to spur them to anger iyswim. A state-approved, safe feminist. A feminist who encourages you to have sex with whoever you like and talk about your periods at cocktail parties (because feminism) while still subconsciously selling you the concept that women need to stay young and pretty.

@LipstickHandbagCoffee I'm not instructing anyone (although apparently I have now been instructed to stop instructing ) nor am I dismissing anyone's opinions. I'm engaging with them. I'm pointing out that some people are expressing them in an unnecessarily nasty way. Not everybody.

I don't think you have the moral high ground here, but I guess I'm not being very nice to you either. Might bow out now.

yeah a "try-hard" probably is about right.

i honestly try not to hate people in public life - but she writes such self-regarding gibberish most of the time, the cool-chick version of Love Island . Very little she writes "costs" her anything - she's always hedging her bets (hence the constant trivia) so she doesn't look "bad" in any way. i put her in the same category as Jo Wiley (another try hard).

i have to go to the Catholic Herald these days for any intellectually meaty or enjoyable / humerous articles.

I think GG is a mixed bag but l have to say she is so right on about the word CUNT and women taking back the word instead of the vagina word which means 'SHEATH' .This almost means the vagina is named and defined for mens use. I can't see CM coming up with such amazing intellectual arguement in a month of Sundays.

Tangled agree with so much of your post too.

Did you hear dead ringers this week with older and younger GG meeting each other? While I don't think GG has sold out in the way they suggested, I did rofl.

Thistle You are certainly dispensing your view of how women should discuss other women.
Terms you’ve used to minimise other opinions you don’t care for
bit teenage
vicious
Bitchy
bitching

I will not be affirmative to someone because they’re a woman. I’ll consider the whole package and comment

👏👏👏 for your last post, Tangled.

I do agree to some extent with PP who said the more feminists in the public eye the better, but I think it is worth assessing whether certain voices are doing more harm than good.

With Caitlin I can’t decide; I hated How to Be a Woman, but I do think it could be a brilliant gateway to feminism book for a certain type of teenage girl. PROVIDED the girl graduates to more complex feminist analysis later.

The damage comes from the fact that many women will not let their thinking develop beyond this type of individualistic, surface-level feminism, because people like Caitlin package it in such a fun and accessible way.

I remember when she first started writing a column in The Times in the early Nineties, I think she was 16 at the time. I wasn't all that impressed at the time and haven't read much by or about her since - certainly wouldn't have pegged her as the voice of feminism for a generation, but then I'm Old School - Germaine Greer and Marilyn French

I went off Caitlin Moran when she wrote an article in the ST saying she spent more time and anguish choosing her kitchen cabinets than she did deciding to have an abortion of child number 3.
Fair enough on both choices, but actually for most women who have an abortion it is a deep thought process that is often very emotionally tied up.

I used to like her but haven't for quite some time now.

Tangled spot on. She "teenageifies" feminism. And she must be in her 40s now with her DMs and her mini dresses. Its scarily true I think what you wrote! I think her journalisy lifestyle (must be nice lets be honest) has cut her off from reality Plus I think it serves her career and her survival to stay in the same groove she set 20 years ago, in the exact way you describe OP, A feminist who encourages you to have sex with whoever you like and talk about your periods at cocktail parties. Zzzzzz.... like thats so revolutionary. Not.

I find her intensely annoying!

I love her. I think she's warm and friendly and funny and can laugh at herself. Met her a couple of times and she messaged me on twitter about something I wrote once. I have found her nothing but compassionate and supportive of other women.
Raised by Wolves had my whole family in stitches.
But hey, we all have our own personal tastes.

Moran lived in a three-bedroom council house in Wolverhampton with her parents and siblings, an experience she described as akin to The Hunger Games

This puts me off to begin with... I mean, really?

I went off Caitlin Moran when she wrote an article in the ST saying she spent more time and anguish choosing her kitchen cabinets than she did deciding to have an abortion of child number 3.

I feel that she would say anything to be funny or to make an impression. It might really be the case that she gave so little thought to her abortion, and if so that’s absolutely fine of course. But she’s always so much more concerned with writing witty sentences than she is with conveying an actual message that it’s impossible to know if this is true or not.

I find her vile. Her comments about not caring that there were no people of colour in the show “Girls” confirmed my view that she’s a twat.

I agree with @MaisyPops - I thought How to be a Woman was great, mainly because I wished it had been around for me to read when I was 14. Someone then gave me How to Build a Girl, which I thought was terrible - basically rehashed the same ground but fictionalised.

I occasionally read her columns but she has a limited range of topics and writes the same thing over and over again. It's always "what it's like growing up in a big poor family in Wolverhampton" or "what it's like having daughters in North London". I will absolutely not be reading her new book.

Str4ngedaysindeed

To be fair I think she had something like 8 or 9 siblings. But I agree this is ridiculous phrasing that reeks of her current privilege. Poverty, like everything else, is just an opportunity for a witty one-liner to her.