To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit now

[keyboardkate]

I took on the mantle to start another thread. If that is not allowed, Mods delete the thread, I am not sure of the protocol. But it certainly is an interesting discussion!

If allowed to stay as my OP, let's go!

But A50 should be like the small print, Any country that wants to leave should be able to read A50 and know exactly what is required to leave, I thought all funding was agreed many years in advance, if you paid your deposit for the bus you obviously loss that and the rest have to make up the shortfall if they still want to go on the bus journey, that you never really wanted to go own anyway

An element of the Swedish government are thinking about possibly leaving. They will be reading all the A50 fine print and preparing carefully crafted replies to each line of what A50 says BEFORE going into meetings and rashly announcing they will go for it.
It's called planning, and for the 'rules' as laid out it will take years of legal wrangling to come up with a plan. Possible but slow.
The word PLAN seems to be missing in the way the UK has gone about this.
The 40 Billion 'deposit' has all the factors built into it and it is the difference that is left to pay.

@rosstac, as mentioned, the British should know what's in A50, because they wrote it. It was never that the Uk didn't want to pay nothing, and neither was it that the EU expected to get everything, it was just initial strong stances to show what they could do, and the 40 billion was something in the middle. it sounds like a lot, but it's not so much if you look at the big picture, when considering the UK's GDP for a year is around 3 trillion (3,000,000,000,000), and the 40 billion is accounting for a few years worth of projects and obligations we'd promised for.

jas I think you were insulting with your comment about the elderly being a drain on CC resources.

Just because I don't currently live there, doesn't mean I am not in touch with what goes on, or that I am not frequently back - where else would I buy my tyres but John Smiths in Callington? I read the papers and watch the local news. I think the average wage is about £20k from what I've read, but this isn't a wholly Cornish problem - there are other areas of the UK with low wages.

Having looked at the stats, for SE Cornwall, the % of second homes is 13, so not that great. I suspect were you to look closer, some of those would be in places like Honicombe Manor or St Dominic Park in the Tamar Valley.

My home is in the Tamar Valley, and there have been moves afoot to build new homes near us for ages, but nothing has happened. The CRHA built 6 3 bed homes in 1992. but nothing since, though there seem to be new houses going up in St Ann's Chapel and Gunnislake every time I come home. If you want to point the finger, do so at the Council, though I note the new development at St Ann's Chapel has homes reserved for locals. Cornwall could (may already do) what S.Hams do, and have a clause that certain houses (ex Council properties bought with right to buy I think) can only be bought by people with ties to the area. Two of the kids of one of my friends have just bought houses around Ivybridge with this clause attached.

I thought this was interesting as well: www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-40510632

The elderly, because of Government cuts in social care, are increasingly a drain on Council resources, that is a fact and not directed at you, you on the other hand suggested i wanted to kill off the elderly, considering my elderly Mum died recently, yes its fcuking insult.

13% of house sales going to 2nd home buyers is shockingly high, Honicombe may well account for some 2nd home sales but the 13%
figure is true of Kelly Bray, where there is no holiday park?
this drives up prices and forces the young to move to areas where there are better paid jobs and housing but i do agree its been an age old problem, which getting back to the thread is why places like Cornwall got Obj 1 funding... so where do you now suppose that loss of millions to our local economy is going to come from?
Did you even consider this when you voted to leave? being a teacher, did you think about students (potentially) unable to access the Eurasmus program? something my daughter about to embark on her Uni course has been told she should consider it off the menu!

Where are the HCA's and other nursing staff going to come from to look after us both as we grow old, down in sunny Cornwall? brexit has caused many to leave and more than a few not to consider the UK.

...moving on, a CH4 poll has 73% (of respondents) putting control of EU and net migration to be cut to the Tory 100k target, even if there is an economic price to be paid.

jas and scary - can I suggest that you agree at least that you're both Cornish? I'm just over the border - in Objective 2 Land. Often bypassed by the tourists but they're beginning to cotton on. They're a novelty at the moment - I try and be helpful when they come by following the Town Heritage Trail. I can't see any evidence of EU assisted funding here - except for the Leader thing which after 20 odd years in the area hasn't really done much except create a paperwork mountain as it administers itself.

Are either of you familiar with Objective 5b areas? I used to live in one - a cluster of parishes that were excluded from applying for any EU funding because they weren't deemed poor enough. Only because there were a very few wealthy people - the rest of us were discounted for any EU assistance.

So, we ve Airbus, BMW and now Unipart saying no-deal will mean loss of 10s of 1000s of jobs.
I say good, the country voted to leave the EU, in its entirety and perhaps now, they ll start to realise the reality of this.
Though unlikely given the government is boasting that they are prepared to walk away..... that the EU will feel the harsh impact of no deal.... yeah right, all those jobs moving back to Europe.... jeez must feel soooo sorry for them.

Or, as Boris puts it ... fuck business.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/23/eu-diplomats-shocked-boriss-four-letter-reply-business-concerns/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

@JasJas
Are you saying you are happy that a couple of hundred thousand workers in Britain stand to lose their jobs? They are British workers and are not 'foreign labourers' who have come into Britain.
If the companies close the factories in Britain they will chose to offer continued employment to workers if they relocate, or just hire new workers in whichever country they go to.
JLR moving to Slovakia. Certainly helps the Slovakian economy at the expense of the British.

If thousands of workers are going to lose their jobs as a result of a no-deal Brexit, the fault is with the people who voted for this shit show. Which is anyone who voted Leave.

People will be losing jobs whatever is 'decided'. The issue will be how many. Jobs will reappear, eventually, but whether they pay as well as they do now is of course debatable. The old classic of declare hardship/bankruptcy, then make everyone reapply for their old jobs but at lower pay. It would work well for some jobs but higher skilled may opt to move out completely.

Those jobs will go because of hard Brexit. Trying to mush the argument with some kind of "dialectics of capitalism " point is disingenuous at best.

Are you saying you are happy that a couple of hundred thousand workers in Britain stand to lose their jobs?

Not happy, because that would imply i care about a plant in Sunderland whose workers voted for brexit, however i do care about the tax take the Government can get and so should they, people working in a call centre or a warehouse usually claim more in benefits than they pay in tax, so skilled jobs are vital to our eco.
HOWEVER, the fault is with our so called leaders who actually, once voted into government, are charged with doing their very best for the UK... not follow a referendum, which most in Parliament believe will screw us over - how about some leadership?
The PM is not governing for the various companies who risk moving to the EU....so your question would be better directed at her, or that twat Boris.
We only have to see that the majority of EU manufacturing is done within the EU, once we became a 3rd country, regardless of any deal and given the growth in EU markets, its only a matter of time before these jobs went to Europe in any case! so, does anyone seriously think that when say Peugeot invest in their next generation of xy or z they ll put money into the UK or a new plant (and jobs) in france?
Macron etc want to be re-elected!

Unless the UK stays in the SM and CU everything will simply get more expensive. New 'super deals' that manage to be BETTER than current deals that the UK share with the EU will have to be a LOT better to match what is being lost (£900 per household already) and compensate for the companies that have already jumped ship or are about to.
Bearing in mind that all countries are already trading to something like capacity the chances of many queuing up to give the UK 'great deals' is fanciful and we now have a track record of being 'unreliable' or inconsistent.

BMW, making Minis are of course German and happy to invest in the UK workforce and before the vote would likely have plans for at least continued or expanded production. Now even though Brexit hasn't happened they are nervous and although may not pull out, they will think very hard before investing more. Business is all about confidence. The vote and particularly the ridiculous 2 years of backbiting without a plan has stuffed confidence completely.
I would strongly suggest that if the majority of leave voters had been told honestly that their pay packets will be £1,000 lighter if they voted to leave, would have thought a bit harder and scrutinised the ridiculous statements that most of the MPs were coming up with.
Sovereignty, control of borders and increasing money to the NHS never were EU issues, they are entirely the responsibility of the UK government.
Even though the workers in Sunderland voted for leaving it is disgusting not to care for them as they are doing their bit to pay for the NHS and everything else through their taxes.

Even though the workers in Sunderland voted for leaving it is disgusting not to care for them as they are doing their bit to pay for the NHS and everything else through their taxes

As you point out by your figures, by voting the way they did, they ve ensured there is less tax take for the NHS going forward, meaning others will have to take up the slack, so no i could nt give a stuff for them.
You d have thought regions that have suffered so much through loss of coal mining and steel production, would have had more thought for their own well being.

btw i dont wish hardship on them or their families BUT they ve the chance to change their future by changing their minds and so far, that is not happening.

Even though the workers in Sunderland voted for leaving it is disgusting not to care for them as they are doing their bit to pay for the NHS and everything else through their taxes.

Nissan workers in Sunderland were warned beforehand that a vote to Leave would threaten their jobs and their industry. That seriously curtails my sympathies to those Leave voters.

We are presuming here that it was the Nissan workers who voted leave. They might have voted remain but as there are a lot more people in that area who do not have jobs or whatever might have persuaded them to vote leave, like the government and opposition's lies perhaps, the vote for the area as a whole was leave.

6700 people work for Nissan in Sunderland. I seriously doubt that they all voted Remain.

Really finding it hard not to think "feck 'em" for those that voted Leave and lose their jobs because their employer pulls out.
I never used to think that way about major closures and job losses.

My family are just considering moving back to the Uk from the Netherlands after 14 years there, but it's not so easy for me, being Czech, with the ill feeling towards Eastern Europeans. My DH is from Lancs, and the kids at 8 and 10 both have UK passports, and talk English perfectly without an accent. But my worry is if I'd fit in, in Cheshire where we are looking. Do you think it can be a problem for me?

Aside from any administrative problems which I can't predict, I don't think so.

I mean, I can't see it being a problem. I live in Cheshire.

It makes me weep, seriously , what a total fuck up. Anyone who voted leave should be absolutely ashamed and girded to take the appalling fuck fest that will follow

@mixed
Any ill feelings against non natives are against those that don't want to fit in. As you are part of an English family you should have no problems.
I wish you luck if you do decide to move.