To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit now

[keyboardkate]

I took on the mantle to start another thread. If that is not allowed, Mods delete the thread, I am not sure of the protocol. But it certainly is an interesting discussion!

If allowed to stay as my OP, let's go!

Whoever they are, don't recall them being on TV all the time.
Loads of pesky experts with all their "fake" comments. Remember them.

Thank you to the earlier posters who provided me with some 'required reading' in regards to my request (ref: assertion that TM could have controlled FOM when she was Home Secretary - have I missed something?).

Looks like I didn't really miss anything at all - just a bit of EU legislation and that Cameron's 'gift' from the EU (pre-Referendum) was that the UK could deport EU migrants if they didn't have paid employment after 6 months.

The thing is these pretty loose measures only apply after FOM has been exercised by the individual. Pretty much an admin nightmare and the UK would need to become a bit more 'police state' within its borders in order to see it through.

It would be far more efficient and less intrusive on the lives of the existing UK residents (from wherever they come) to control the movement into and out of the country at the border.

I was prepared to eat my hat - thinking I'd missed something - but I hadn't missed anything at all really.

Membership of the EU has been a 'moderator' on some out our governments excesses. MrsT went all out to smash unions, pretty effectively putting many thousands out of work and onto the dole (double whammy) in that they were not earning so would not pay tax plus need dole money. The fact that the mines were getting uneconomic (partly through lack of investment and 'better quality' coal from other countries meant that it was declining anyway. This country fails to invest in infrastructure. Yes it is expensive but it (generally) benefits all. Steelmaking, we used to be a leader but again, lack of investment and the rise of newer, better plants overseas helped kill that off. Road planning. The UKs roads are often too winding and complicated making bottlenecks where the daily commute sees cars polluting the atmosphere going nowhere fast. Be radical, sort out the bottlenecks. Costs money mind.
Railways, again, very little investment and the Beeching cuts (probably before EU) smashed that up but no one thought (or at least acted) to improve and link up places. Crossrail should have been done 50 years ago or more, It's daft having to get a taxi or tube to get from a line North of London to continue South.
Labour has made efforts to make a decent 'welfare state' but not managed to see it through. If you look at the antics of the MP who shouted 'Object' in the upskirting bill which although important is not quite as important as the whole country being 'shafted' by the government. Had he kept his mouth shut the bill would have passed and things could have progressed. This 'ability' by members of the government to derail any plans that don't suit the agenda and detracts from an improvement to society as a whole is wrong.
Leaving the EU is a financial disaster. The 'smart' companies who can will leave (fewer jobs, no tax revenue, less for the Gov to put into any new infrastructure) so prices will have to go up. We have demonstrated we can't really be trusted and have already caused a lot of financial pain in the EU, why would they want to now do really good deals? Stuff from further abroad, why sell to the UK at a 'good deal' when they can sell to the EU who are far less likely to mess them about. New countries to deal with? Most have already got deals with their neighbours, many of whom are 'on the up' so why ship stuff half way around the planet for a mediocre deal to a country that is messing about?
Yo are at a kids party and one kid is being 'precious' and refuses to join in the games, then disappears and pukes all over the bathroom and goes home, would you invite them again?
All for the promise of????, mostly stuff we had already and a (cat in hell's) chance of maybe getting a 'better deal'.
I have missed this afternoons news but the 'big NHS announcement' at breakfast time was shown to be a lie by lunchtime.

@HateIsNotGood

You read all of the links that people gave you and came to the conclusion that the EU rules on FoM were 'pretty loose' and 'an admin nightmare'?

Did you miss the posts from people who have lived elsewhere in the EU that informed you that:

• All of the other EU countries strictly impose and follow the 3-month rule (not 6 months),

• None of these countries find it an 'admin nightmare' - they have robust systems in place to enforce the rules,

• EU residents don't find it a nightmare - it actually protects them against rogue employers and landlords,

• Citizens of the host countries don't object as it protects them from EU immigrants from other countries coming in and working for less than the agreed or minimum wages, or working cash-in-hand.

As a lateral thought.
Rather than simply putting miners on the dole, the Gov COULD have got them digging Crossrail or other worthwhile infrastructure improvements.
Nope, Kill the unions and stuff the peasants who live outside London.

In the news (BBC) Trump is having a pop at Mrs Merkel about immigration saying she needs to get tough.
I would say that the EU needs to get tougher but more importantly a decent plan to sort out major amounts of immigration.

Genuine question to those more knowledgeable than me.

Should we be stockpiling tins etc? Is there a chance I won’t be able to feed my kids for a while? Or is that an exaggeration?

DrDoMore I rolled my eyes at Brexit-stockpilers for ages, but then it snowed in March and the shops in my village (in south of England) ran low on supplies. Being limited to purchasing 4 pints of milk really brought it home to me how fragile the supply lines are.
Since then I've had boxes of long life milk and tins and packets in the garage, just in case, and also started growing more of our own veg. Hopefully the U.K. won't crash out without a deal, but if we do then I think there could be a very lean patch.

Havana - I was responding to the required reading I was provided - and if you would also like to provide me with some required reading/evidence I am more than happy to read it in my own time. But then you might have to read back a bit to see what my actual question was.

I do not regard personal posts on the internet as anything other than opinion and something that everyone has the freedom to express.

Well done to the other countries that manage their borders much better than the UK and to the posters who have made these countries their homes.

So the UK isn't as good at being these other countries as well as the other countries are at being themselves. That's fine - as individuals we aren't all great at everything or some things and as countries the same could well apply too.

Frankly it's hard to imagine why more people want to come here than those that want to leave, seeing as we're so awful and all.

I don't stockpile, I prep.

HateIsNotGood Maybe a non contributory (in or out of work) benefits system, free healthcare, low wage but low unemployment and you ve your answer.
Try moving to Warsaw and getting low paid work, topped up by benefits and most of your rent paid?,

Our system sucks and its ALL our own fault.

@hateis
I am thinking some want to come as they speak some English rather than the other European languages, this is a guess of course.
They may also have heard that it is relatively easy to get benefits (even if it is untrue).
Having to carry ID with you in at least a few European countries may also be an issue as the UK does not so 'enabling' them to 'disappear' once they have arrived. Of course these and other aspects will be discussed either before they leave or with others on the way over.
Heading to the USA used to be a dream for many, land of opportunity but it is rather harder to get there and US immigration is very strict.
There aren't may posters and brochures saying 'Don't come to Britain, it's shit'! The Canadians don't tell you about their mosquitoes either!

Having moved to Europe where I need an ID card from Britain I am dreading leaving my ID at home by accident. I don't think not having ID with you is illegal just inconvenient if you can't get it quickly.

Great article in the FT about the supposed extra cash for the NHS. It illustrates how ignorant most voters really are about Brexit - unless of course Theresa May has just planted a magic money tree.

"Maybe a non contributory (in or out of work) benefits system, free healthcare, low wage but low unemployment and you ve your answer."

EU immigrants are under represented on the JSA claimaint count, they make up 2% of the claimaints but 10% of the workforce. 2% of 1.44 million is 28,800 people. Or less than 1% of all EU immigrants.

EU immigrants are under represented too in those claiming tax credits 6.8% of total claimants, contained at least one adult who was an EU national at NINo registration.

So yeah benefits are the attraction, and healthcare, what with most migrants being young and healthy, and not using it much.

I think this still sums up a lot of people on this thread

Oooh a Jonathan Pie clip...

often ill informed and ranty

The only people I hear saying all leave voters are thick and racist are leave voters who use it as a strawman to divert the argument.

Which bit Lurker

The thing is, even if and when a deal is negotiated, it then has to be ratified by 27 other countries. Or am I wrong on that ?

It does have to be ratified, which is why it needs to be done by October so that this can occur.

Tick tock

Has anyone seen this?

Poll suggests majority of brexit voters would prefer breakup of the UK to staying in the single market- actually it may suggest the majority of people would prefer that.

I'd be curious as to how influential that would be if true. It still seems anything that would alienate the DUP will be the least likely option.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/leave-voters-prefer-hard-border-to-staying-in-customs-union-poll-1.3535851?mode=amp

Summer recess is 24th July to 4th of September , so taking those weeks out of the equation , not many weeks left to get any sort of deal or sort out the NI border question.

Tick tock indeed

The only people I hear saying all leave voters are thick and racist are leave voters who use it as a strawman to divert the argument.

I'm a remainer, even I know that is not true.

On this thread:

Anyway I could say anyone who has fallen for that crap is thick and they bloody well are but I wont.

It’s the rich leading the thick

Anyone who isn’t worried is either very rich or thick.

The fact it has become a cliche does not make it a straw man.

Thick is perhaps a bit harsh - ill-informed might be a better way of putting it.