To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit now

[keyboardkate]

I took on the mantle to start another thread. If that is not allowed, Mods delete the thread, I am not sure of the protocol. But it certainly is an interesting discussion!

If allowed to stay as my OP, let's go!

I work in a public facing role in the NE. I have not been in to any of the big factories but I have spoken to many white, british people who were affected by the closure of TaTa and the cuts at Nissan.

I live in Spain and you need a work contract or proof of income and private health insurance to get an ID card/resident card here. Without one you can't access healthcare or any other services, you can't function basically in society without one, you effectively have no papers and are illegal.

Frequency TaTa steel could not compete with cheap Chinese steel, something DT is trying to do something about,

golondrina Brilliant, same it’s not the same EU wide, No I can’t make are past or previous government do it,

If the tories remain in power we will become a tax haven. The rich will become richer and the poor will become poorer.

So by the looks of it, you remainers must be lived we the government for not implementing all these things to clampdown on abuse of immigration, it’s almost like the past and previous governments were trying to get the local people upset enough to want to leave the EU, it’s certainly worked, they could have stopped it dead in its tracks, no wonder you’re upset with the governments

So by the looks of it, you remainers must be lived we the government for not implementing all these things to clampdown on abuse of immigration, it’s almost like the past and previous governments were trying to get the local people upset enough to want to leave the EU, it’s certainly worked, they could have stopped it dead in its tracks, no wonder you’re upset with the governments

Just pointing out that IF the Brexit vote was about taking back control of EU immigration and borders then the present Government and individual ministers are being less than honest.

Davis almost single-handedly blocked the ID cards proposal when he was in opposition - now he wants to introduce it.

May, one of the UK's longest-serving Home Secretaries, could have strengthened both border controls and overseen the introduction of the 3-month rule - instead she weakened the Border Service and sacked the boss when he pointed out that her actions were making his departments job impossible.

Another issue that is often raised is that of EU workers working on 'grey' contracts to undercut UK workers wages. The EU has finally passed a law making this illegal (basically, from now on, foreign workers abroad must be paid the going local rate). This would have resolved the perceived 'Polish plumbers/truckers problem'. The EU member that spent years opposing this was ….. the UK.

All of these problems could have been resolved by any UK government and I'm not impressed that the Leave campaign insist that this can only be resolved by leaving the EU when quite clearly it has been a failing on the part of successive UK governments.

Motheroffourdragons Not saying you were unhappy with immigration, but many are in the form it was in the U.K., I’m just wondering for what reason the past and previous governments did nothing and allowed a situation to develop that could have been stopped, It almost like they wanted this to happen or aren’t they that clever

Rosstac

The decline in wages has nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with paying dividends to shareholders/Directors and the decline in unionisation and collective bargaining.

I dont work in an industry which has attracted migrant labour, yet my basic pay has gone up 4k in 22 years most of that increase was in the first 10 years.
The CEO earns over £2m per year, in 1996 accounts show the the then CEO was on £245k, lucky him.

You are blaming the wrong people.

Motheroffourdragons Most people that are not unhappy with immigration have never had it impact their life, so why would you be unhappy with it,

the working class feel like they have been neglected by the upper class If that is the case then why in God’s name are they listening to the likes of JRM and Boris Johnson?????

Ah the old Class System debate.

People are people, most of us work for a living, so we are working class!

Those who don't are the idle rich with too much time on their hands, so they plot endlessly to keep it that way!

what do you think the local people should do when no past or previous government has listened to them The problems facing the U.K. - the crumbling NHS, the lack of social housing, the fact that people are having to queue at food banks - has absolutely nothing to do with being in the EU. The people in Government want you to think that because it it deflects attention away from their own failings. In fact injections of cash and improvements to infrastructure in some of the poorest parts of the U.K. have come in the form of hand outs from the EU - the EU actually cares about these struggling areas when the UK’s own Government doesn’t. People living in these struggling parts of the U.K. have quite literally sawn off the safe branch they were sitting on by voting to leave.

jasjas1973 It’s not just about the money, schools, houses social services etc, I agree it’s not just migrants, it’s big business fault with no control on their wages, I think there should be a max wage, but that’s just me, in my work line, which I have been in for 40 years, I have seen a massive change, with most jobs going to migrants on min/ Living wage , it was a well paid job, but once the bosses knew the migrants would work for min wage, that was that no pay rises for 8 years and the U.K. people have left one by one, either retired or trying to get a higher paid job, which is hard as with plenty of willing cheap labour about min wage has become the going rate, I don’t blame the migrants for trying to make a better live for themselves but should it be at Are expense
Only Two years to go and I get the state pension and other things and I can retire, if it’s not gone tits up by then

LillianGish I presume you don’t live in an area where migrants now outnumber the local people, Yes they naturally blame the EU for FOM, I know it’s not so black or white as that,

Motheroffourdragons Yes, but what can you do when the governments don’t do anything, you end up with Brexit,

Brexit by your explanation @Rosstac is people smashing things up because they aren't happy. When has that ever gone well?

But Rosstac are you unable to see that even after Brexit the Government will still be there - it’s just that there will be no EU grants or injections of cash for struggling areas. If you live in a poor part of the U.K. you will be even more exposed than you are now - you will be poorer.

Rosstac

" I presume you don’t live in an area where migrants now outnumber the local people,"

There are no areas where migrants outnumber "local people", by which I assume you mean native born.

According to The Migration Observatory:

"Foreign-born people constituted 41% of Inner London’s population in 2015 (the highest share among all regions with comparable data).

www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/

So even in Inner London, which has by far the largest immigrant population, they are still in the minority. And of course, these are not just EU nationals, but even including non-EU nationals your claim that migrants are in the majority anywhere in the country is just wrong. The website also includes breakdowns by nationality, so you can also see the percentage splits.

@Rosstac I sense general dissatisfaction with the way this country was treating you or people you know as your reason for voting Leave.
Leave is for EVER. The government is every 5 years or so. Don't like it? Vote them out. Don't get the result you want? Get involved in political campaigning to put it right. We are now all fucked for years sorting this bloody mess out and we didn't need to be.

While I was wasting my time suggesting WHY Brexit is going to cost Britons dearly the driver from TNT delivered a parcel. I needed to show my ID before he would leave it. As car owner/drivers here you have to carry your insurance and license papers in the car at all times as they must be produced if stopped by the police. While as a Brit it feels like an imposition but thinking through, beyond the 30 seconds needed to produce the papers it is not a big deal. I had thought leaving papers in the car would be a security risk but on the basis that the police and other agencies have the same data to hand any theft of your vehicle would take a bit of explaining. Not impossible of course but in a way quite reassuring. You can be stopped in the UK of course but as you don't carry the papers you have to take them to a police station within a short period.
Although this regulation may feel like an imposition, the upside is that people found without ID are picked up and their status checked.
Thus it is FOM ish, in a controlled way.