To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit now

[keyboardkate]

I took on the mantle to start another thread. If that is not allowed, Mods delete the thread, I am not sure of the protocol. But it certainly is an interesting discussion!

If allowed to stay as my OP, let's go!

There's an earlier poster based in Belgium where the 3 month rule works perfectly well.
Now we should force any UK citizen on benefits to do the low paid jobs that the EU workers were doing or stop their benefits. Wherever in the country the job is. Because that's the logical conclusion of this. As Norman Tebbitt said "get on your bike and look for work". Or are you too young to remember that. It went down really well

Oh come on, we don't really believe that people posting on public social media are able to slow down or sabotage brexit negotiations any more than they are able to help them along by the sheer power of positive thinking.

Brexit is a shit storm because brexit was always going to be a shit storm. There is no possible, feasible positive outcome from it. Praying to the Brexit fairies for a good deal was never going to help us.

If you believe Brexit is being jeopardised by in party fighting, then surely you should be questioning the leadership of that party and calling for a vote of no confidence, not blaming the people who never wanted this in the first place.

Absolutely Frequency

lostinsunshine As I said don’t mention the 3 month rule, the lady that gave up everything to go To Belgium if after 3 months she is willing going to leave to go back to nothing, hoping to get a job this week next week, nobody is going to willing leave after going to all the trouble to get here, then the cash in hand jobs start at my lower level you would be surprised what goes on

Frequency As much as you say you are not slowing down Brexit , nobody is going to listen to people complaining about the leadership it’s a two way thing

@Rosstac . Not surprised. Don't be patronising. My mother was invited here after the war to do the jobs that British women either weren't allowed or were too grand to do.
Maybe we need to start forcing people to move away from their homes, live in barracks and do the shit jobs they were hitherto far too grand to do. It's the alternative to paying furriners to do it post Brexit.

She vividly remembers wiping someone's incontinent arse while they racially abused her. Happy days, the fifties.

lostinsunshine Now we are talking, I see nothing wrong with the long term unemployed doing a bit of fruit picking etc, ( now I’ll wat for tha outraged people )

In Belgium, if she was not able to prove her income/pay social security it would amount to the same thing - she would have to supply a job contract. Cash in hand work is illegal - not just in a withholding of tax way. For domestic work, there is a system of "service cheques". They are a set amount and each would normally pay for an hour of cleaning / gardening / ironing etc. Staff need to be registered with an agency. In Belgium everyone must have ID and their address is registered. The police will check you live where you say you do. And will check again if you move house etc. These are all things the UK govt could do if they had the will.

How am I slowing down Brexit by posting on MN? If my lack of confidence is a threat to brexit, it is up to the leadership and brexiters to convince me it is a good idea and instill new confidence in me, is it not? Just as it is up to TM to instill confidence in her own party. So far, neither is happening.

It is not Remain's fault that Leave has no convincing arguments or solutions to the things causing us to lack confidence in the process.

Surely no-one is blind enough to truly believe we should all be quiet and go away and pray to the Brexit fairies and it will all work out. Give us answers, give us plans, show us your brilliant ideas, give us tangible benefits to Brexit and Leavers will get on board.

Why isn't anyone doing that if our fear is undermining your brilliant new future?

As we can all see from other EU countries slowly but surely the tide has turned against uncontrolled immigration, look at Germany today, People are feeling useless like nobody listens to there concerns, eventually there is going to have to be some compromise

@Rosstac got to admit, post Brexit, I have lost any compassion I ever had. Fuck 'em. They voted for it. They can do the shit jobs that their skill level is suited for. Wherever it is in the country. I only care about my immediate loved ones. Which is why I prep. And why I'm getting us all Irish passports to get back the rights those fuckers took off us my daughter.

TheyBuiltThePyramids Cash in hand is illegal here as well, but I dread to think how much cash changes hands everyday
The ID idea was a none starter here, I don’t know why

lostinsunshine But what you need to think about is why a lot of un- semi skilled vote the way they did, Immigration has had a bad affect on a lot off people, they are looking after themselves like you are looking after yourself

"They" have looked after themselves like turkeys voting for Christmas. "They" have been played. When "they" final twig it there will be a bit of discontent.
I don't care. I only care now about me and mine.

The ID idea was a none starter here, I don’t know why

I can help you with that one. When the last Labour government attempted to introduce it, it was voted down in Parliament. The most vociferous opponent was one David Davis - who as part of the Brexit terms now wants all EU citizens in the UK to be registered and subjected to the threat of arrest and deportation (see Windrush) if they don't comply, even if they have been in the UK for 40 years. So now he's arguing for the exact measures that he argued against earlier.

As someone who has lived and worked in several EU countries I can confirm that the 3-month rule is strictly enforced in those countries. Registration within 48 hours, confirmation of employment (or sufficient means) and housing status confirmed within 3 months. Businesses are constantly monitored for employment and tax compliance, and penalties are harsh, so while cash-in-hand is not impossible, it makes it extremely risky for employers and employees alike.

Boston like many other parts of the UK has been badly let down. If those parts of the UK think that there will now be inward investment from Westminster to replace EU funding, they are utterly naive. Anyone who isn’t worried is either very rich or thick. Can leave voters who think there will be no problems please explain why JRM is moving his business to Dublin and Nigel Lawson is taking French citizenship if leaving the EU is going to be so marvellous. Viscount Rothermere who owns the Daily Mail - one of the chief champions of Brexit - is domiciled in France. Do ordinary people who have no option of applying for an Irish or other EU passport and who don’t have billions in the bank as a cushion not feel even slightly uneasy about that? Why would someone tell you how marvellous it is to be outside the EU and then make every effort to ensure they were still secure in the EU?

@LillianGish , I agree. Great username btw.

lostinsunshine I don’t blame your attitude, but the working class feel like they have been neglected by the upper class and are fed up with people competing for, what was normally their jobs, despite what reports say wages have been cut partly by available cheaper labour partly firms getting away with it, unfortunately a lot of these people are good honest hardworking citizens who feel like they have been shafted, we all have a academic level and no matter how hard people study or work opportunity’s are limited to them, A factory job used to be a well paid job with shift pay, not anymore, min wage at best if you can get past the foreign agency controller that gives out the work.

The factories are closing down. Manufacturing in the UK is in decline. How will removing ourselves from the single market help with that?

Anyone voting for Brexit to get themselves a factory job has shot themselves in the foot, though I doubt anyone did.

LillianGish Yes you are probably right, but what do you think the local people should do when no past or previous government has listened to them, should they just accept what’s happening to them or try to do rightly or wrongly something about there situation, it’s much the same as the rich and lucky people who can move on if things get bad, everybody just looking after themselves

FrequencyU.K. people would be lucky to get a factory job, have you visited a big factories lately

Viscount Rothermere who owns the Daily Mail - one of the chief champions of Brexit

He also owns the Mail on Sunday which supports Remain.

Geordie Greig, the editor of MoS is now becoming the editor of the Daily Mail. He is a passionate remainer so maybe the DM will now lean towards Remain. Or maybe not.