Am I being ridiculously judgy?

[onetworedblue]

Firstly, full disclosure- I am a smoker and do not have “biological” children so have never been in this position myself.

However I have just been outside at work for a cigarette and noticed a heavily pregnant woman smoking. This made me feel a level of disgust so strong I was shocked at my own reaction!

Do other people feel like this or am I ridiculously judgy? And anyone who has smoked when pregnant, how have you justified this, whilst knowing the damage you could be causing to your child?

I think smoking is disgusting full stop and have known for 25years that is it harmful, hence find it unbelievable that so many young people have ever taken it up.

Being addictive, though, it seems unfair and hypocritical for a smoker to criticise another smoker. Smoking of any sort affects others around you in all sorts of situations.

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg

No, that’s not the case. Yes foetal alcohol syndrome is for a lot of alcohol, but the actual alcohol guidelines here and in the US are to abstain completely because there isn’t enough data yada yada. So maybe it’s not proven to be dangerous, but is also not proven to be fine. People just give drinking a free pass because more people do it! Caffeine is another one where it’s actually proven to be harmful beyond a certain amount but people don’t give a shit and drink a lot of it. All I’m saying is it’s hypocritical to care about one and disregard the other (although I do think smoking is “worse” because you also subject other people to it). All of these things make me sad because I don’t understand why someone can’t just go without something for their baby! But then again junk food is not good for pregnancy either and I’ve had a few binges during 9 months that I’m sure a very healthy person would judge (and rightly so).

Interesting to see varied responses. But certainly not my intention to be goady or hypocritical, I was genuinely quite shocked at the strength of the reaction I had. I’m usually completely non judgemental and take a “live and let live” approach, which I guess is why I posed the question. The answer may be obvious to some but wasn’t to me, hence my asking for options!

Firstly, full disclosure- I am a smoker

So, "smoker gets to judge someone else for smoking". It must feel very nice for you to have someone else you can look down on, when so many other people are looking down on you.

Maybe you could use your disgust as a motivation to change your own behaviour? Judging other people for smoking while doing nothing about your own smoking would just be pathetic and hypocritical.

Smoking with pushchair pretty unpleasant too

It's obviously very bad to smoke while pregnant, but I believe that women should have agency over their own bodies. There is nothing the world likes to do more than judge a pregnant woman and her choices.

Fair enough, onetworedblue, it was my post that suggested you were being goady. You've just picked a 'blue touchpaper' topic, as I'm sure you know. It depends whether in your mind being 'ridiculously judgy' means that you would have a strong reaction, give an internal shudder and think how awful whatever it was is - or whether you would tut and make sure that you give an outward sign (as I'm sure many posters here actually would).

I take back my suggestion of 'goady' and offer you an apology for that. I think that lots of things are horrendous but I don't comment on them to the people doing them (if they're not hurting somebody else). I know that pregnancy seems a bit different as they are hurting their unborn baby... but, it's their baby to hurt and until smoking (or whatever) becomes illegal, there's nothing to be done about it.

I personally wouldn't say a word to a smoking pregnant woman because she most definitely knows it's an awful thing to do and she probably feels badly enough about it without a comment from me. So I would say and do nothing. It would sicken me though. My mum smoked during all her pregnancies (70s), it wasn't discouraged then I think?

I don't think you are being judgy. When I was ttc. I had to regularly drive past a maternity unit and there were always pregnant women outside smoking. I can't describe how it made me feel.

You have a visceral reaction because you have been trained to see women's bodies as public property. Especially when pregnant. Women are judged very harshly and, as is evidenced from this thread, some would love to criminalize them as well.

Women's bodies are theirs. Full stop. They absolutely should be supported to make healthy choices for themselves and a pregnancy they want to keep. But judging doesn't work.

I have worked with several smoking mothers. All of them had given up A class drugs when they found out they were pregnant. Left abusive relationships. Moved house. Come off the streets. Shit I couldn't do. So please don't judge. Support by all means. But don't judge.

Lethaldrizzle

Agree!

MN is weird though because most will agree that smoking whilst pregnant is horrible (and it is) but have no qualms when a woman drinks whilst pregnant or whilst breastfeeding.

It's not remotely the same thing. Light drinking when pregnant probably does no harm (and during breastfeeding, even less possibility). And if you are talking about drinking significant amounts, of course people would judge that!

No I agree it is awful and I don’t care if that’s judgy.

When I go for my appointments in the hospital and they have all those ‘stop smoking’ posters in the antenatal clinic- it’s pretty clear that some women just don’t care despite given lots of help to quit.

Good post, MrsTerryPratchett, what do you mean by 'support'? I've just been 'neutral' or what I think is neutral. I agree with your post though - and Rowe v Wade is absolutely clear.

I'd be really interested to know your thoughts on how we move on from judging to support.

Why shouldn't a smoker judge a smoking pregnant lady? Would you say a drunk woman shouldn't judge a pregnant woman necking gin and tonics on a Friday night out?

Some things are obviously less acceptable when pregnant than when not! Including smoking!

I do judge a bit. I gave up smoking relatively easily and don't drink very much. But I can't walk past an open packet of biscuits without finishing it and I am very overweight so shrug

We all pass something crappy onto our kids, let's face it. Smoking is probably the most obviously bad one but there are lots of others. I mean, doesn't this end with us saying that people who have a genetic predisposition to a particular illness shouldn't have babies? Where do you stop?

Don't care or are under so much stress that the smoking is the only thing that's keeping them on an even keel.

It isn't a coincidence that very few rich people smoke, but a lot of poor people do.

Kokeshi yet the poster in the pharmacy I go to - and the surgery I attend - says 'No drinking is safe and that the only safe limit is zero'.

I also think that some people have very different views of what is 'light'.

Hmmmm. I completely agree with you. It is one of the worst things to see but from you saying you don’t have biological children I’m guessing you do care for children in some way (step/adopted) etc so unless you never ever smoke when they’re going to be around you it’s quite hypocritical to judge?

They are adopting a risk-intolerant approach, basically--same with a lot o f things.

Bumpology does a decent review of the available studies and concludes that light drinking is probably fine.

Well, you are being judgy, of course you are. Whether it is right or not, or fair or not, or unreasonable or not, is another matter.

Well in my case @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe I house them! So I can offer to support them to appointments, chat about ways they can reduce if they want to, talk about things that helped me give up, empathize with stress and try to reduce it.

With a random woman, neutral is definitely the way to go!

@Tangled59 - fat cells grow in size, not quantity

I did actually see something yesterday that made me think. A pregnancy test machine in a toilet in a pub, funded by an FASD charity. So women can test if they are somewhere with alcohol. Also had support numbers on it. And was very cheap (£2 a test).

I thought it was clever. Gives information not judgement. And so cheap that it helps women who may have financial issues.

kokeshi

probably does no harm - that “probably” is where I take issue. If it’s not 100% safe why do it? Same with all the medicine in the “probably fine” category. It’s just not sure enough for me.

No, that’s not the case. Yes foetal alcohol syndrome is for a lot of alcohol, but the actual alcohol guidelines here and in the US are to abstain completely because there isn’t enough data yada yada. So maybe it’s not proven to be dangerous, but is also not proven to be fine

Read the millenium cohort studies - 11 thousand children in the UK - I'm very comfortable following reading it, that light to moderate drinking is fine.

Can you show me the studies saying that carrots are safe in pregnancy? What the safe level of carrot intake is? No? Well, a person doesn't need carrots, a woman could easily give up carrots for 9 months, why take the risk?

How about unnecessary car journeys very risky, riding a pushbike? How about that exercise is also proven to increase risk of miscarriage (on the other hand, lack of exercise is also bad for your and your baby's health - so they've got you coming and going there)