To insist that DD age 11 change schools so we can move away?

[sophiebeth]

So I've posted on here about 6 months ago about the very difficult dynamic between me, my mum and DD. We have lived together since DD a baby, she's now 11. Have made attempts to get somewhere separate for us from my mum over the yrs but mum uses emotional blackmail to wear me down until I can't cope with the fear and guilt and agree that we stay living together. She undermines me in front of DD, has totally taken over, I've been to extensive therapy to try to break the enmeshment between my mum and I, so I can give DD a psychologically healthier environment and also be happy myself.
Situation now is I finally got the balls to put house on market, put foot down when mum had hysterics and tried to make me feel like terrible person for wanting to live separately from her. House is SSTC but I am stuck finding somewhere to buy because, due to witnessing my mum (her nan) throw tantrums and get upset about is moving, DD is angry with me and refusing to move to another school. I don't want to stay in same town any more, feel need to be further away from mum who I know will still try to interfere between me and DD. I want to move 50 miles away (Shropshire) whch is also nearer my DP. I've found a house which is near good transport links, only 1hr16min train journey back to see my mum if DD wants to visit for the weekend. Also have an opportunity to get DD into really good school (private) as long as I can get bursary - but DD would have to visit and meet with the head and she absolutely refuses to. State schools in the same area (Oswestry) aren't that great and the decent ones in Shrewsbury have no places for September so little point buying house there. DD is extremely bright and musical but not being stretched at current school and losing interest in things she has talent for. She tells me that if I try to make her move schools and away from our town, she will move in with my mum. I have told her this is not an option for her. She has only been at current school for a year and although I know it would be really hard for her to leave her new friends and adjust to a different place, I'm sure she would settle in and be happy somewhere else. The situation is so stressful that I am starting to get lost in the emotional upset of it and wonder how I will sort it all out.
Sorry for long post but am at my wit's end and really struggling to hold it together. I could settle for a house where we live now and leave DD at current school but this will teach her that throwing tanteums and making threats gets you what you want, and means I won't get us away from my mum's negative influence. Help!

Boarding kennels for the pets?

On a slightly lighter note, my immediate problem is, am waiting for car parts to be delivered (bashed front of car last week when had sciatica leg spasm) and family situation has given me the shits aggravated my IBS so I'm reluctant to go to the toilet for what could be a long session in case delivery turns up while I'm in there and I have to stumble out of loo with trousers down...

you do know grandparents have no legal rights over a parent? i would sit your mum down, when dd isnt around and remind her if her behaviour continues to be so negative etc then you will be restricting her time with dd. then when you move, get dd into as many interests and groups as possible in the new town, this will help with her friendships in the new town and also cut the amount of free time dd has for your mum. teenagers will not be wanting to spend hours sitting on a sofa in a different town with their nan when they could be out and about with their friends. time to get out.

Yes, I have already done exactly that with DM. She will not accept that and calls me stupid. But at least I have spelled it out to her, so up to her if she continues to behave like this.

Delivery has just been

Hope dd is calmer when she gets home today

Me too billy
Trying to think of best way to protect her from any further incidents like this morning. Calmly told DM when she got home (who acted as if nothing had happened) that if she does anything like that again, she can leave straight away. She said no and refused to accept that she was in the wrong. So if it comes to it, DD and I will have to leave.

Your updates about your mum are making my blood boil - what an evil, horrible woman she is and the damage she's doing to your child and your relationship with her could take you years to overcome. Is there no other family member you could get to intervene - you mentioned having a brother? I feel it needs something drastic to happen to shock her into understanding how awful her behaviour is, like a visit from social services or something. What she's doing is emotionally abusing you both and you have to put a stop to it NOW.

I have 2 DBs, one is NC, the other has his own problems and not in position to help. DF could help practically with move and also supporting DD but he's not great with emotionally charged stuff. DP will help with move but so far has little relationship with DD as I've been keeping him at arm's length from family situation. Difficult to involve family friends as I don't want people feeling stuck in the middle and I'd rather they supported DM so she does not dump all her upset on me and DD feels she has her friends to support her - it will be a difficult change for her, however awful she is being.

I really do think the police and SS are called for. She is an abusive controlling bully. It's coercive control ( it doesn't just have to be a partner, family members count as well! ) which is illegal.
If she were your partner doing this, would it be ok? Of course not!

When is the house sale due to go through can you afford to do a short term rent in the meantime? If dm is acting like nothing has happened you prob need space away now

Or if you’ve decided to leave town anyway so she will be changing schools can you take her out early and go on holiday somewhere even if it’s just a caravan by the sea. It’ll be an easier sell than everything else that’s happened and will make her see the difference being in a different environment just the 2 of you is.

sophie you are doing absolutely the right thing.

I'd say your mum was being a frenemy at best, but from everything you have written, it doesn't sound like much of a 'friend' is in there at all. From the outside it looks like she is deliberately, maybe only half-consciously, trying to rip your daughter's affections away from you onto herself.

you should have asked your Mother to MOVE OUT immediately following this mornings fiasco.. not given her another chance to sabotage your life...

see to be really honest...

I'm genuinely worried about you OP ... is there absolutely nobody you can turn to .. to help

I did and she said no! Would rather avoid police and SS for DDs sake. I am ok. It's DD who can't be expected to understand at her age how wrong the situation is and the tactics, conscious or otherwise, that DM is using. I have good friends who understand but they are scattered all over and none are local...I can talk to them though, just don't want to dump on then too much. Honestly overwhelmed by how supportive people on here are being

You know what stands out to me OP (other than the fact your "D"M is batshit!) - it's that you are one fecking strong woman! The fact you and DD had a lovely day when it was the two of you shows that you are doing the right thing. Keep on at it!

Absolutely Jam - I noticed that too. OP you said that you had a lovely afternoon playing board games etc when it was just the two of you. Keep hold of that - its what you have to look forward to when all this dust settles. You are doing absolutely the right thing and not a moment too soon - your dd is still young enough to recover from the emotional abuse of your dm. Best of luck.

Thanks Jam and Cora. At the moment just trying to get through DD's daily 'I'm not living with you' protests. The conversations feel a little ridiculous to me and go like this:
DD (after I pull her up in being rude/disobeying etc): I'm not living with you if you're going to be like this
Me: Yes you are living with me
DD: No I'm not. I'll live with nana.
Me: You are coming with me and that is final
DD: How are you gonna make me?
Me: Don't you worry about that, you're coming with me and that's final
DD: But you can't make me
Me: We've already discussed this several times. I'm not going over and over it. End of discussion.
DD: Fine, just walk away. You don't care about my feelings at all. I'm not living with you.
Me: I do care about your feelings and I know you are feeling angry. It's fine for you to say you don't want to come but that is not going to change what is happening.
Argh, any tips on how to deal with this back and forth any better??

I ought to add that one time when this went on and on, and DD was saying I can't physically make her come with me, she will just head off to DMs and leave me a note, so what can I do about that, I said I would ask the police for help because that is who you call when children run away. Felt so bad saying that and wondered afterwards if I'd said the wrong thing but was so exasperated...and if she does run off to DMs on moving day and DM tries to keep her there (last night DM said in front of her, DD is nearly 12 and once she's 12 she can decide who to live with for herself), then I may have to get authorities involved. FFS

OP you're amazing but that really isn't normal for an 11 year old. It shows how badly your mum has damaged her. I think that although she will still have an attitude, the change will be instant.
Just stay firm. I would try and prevent talking about the move at all costs. Even if she misses out on the school place, the benefits to her will be immense.
Will she have an attitude on at the school interview (mine are good at school but awful at home sometimes, because they feel safe to kick off)

I know it's not normal. I apologised to her for exposing her to the conflict between DM and I and explained that is why I am moving, to give her a calmer home environment and more consistent parenting. She cried last night and said she dreaded coming home from school because of me. I felt so awful for her and gave her a big hug amd told her I love her and I'm so sorry I haven't dealt better with the disagreements between DM and I. But I am not saying sorry for moving.
DD is a gem at school and only misbehaves at home or sometimes when at family friends when with DM.

Please don't explain this too much. She's a child and can't have that insight because she loves her granny. It will also head-fuck her when your DM is dripping in the other ear.
I would drag her to the interview then, and let her go in alone.
Don't keep explaining or apologising. It won't make things better for her. Just keep saying no and stay firm with your answers.
You're doing amazing x

You are doing so well under very difficult circumstances. Without going into detail, I know how damaging and mind-bending mothers like yours can be - basically after years of my mother trying to do very similar to me & my DC I am now NC with her (no other choice eventually) and she has sadly moved on to my sister & her children. The important thing is you keep strong because you still have a large proportion of your DD's childhood remaining to undo the damage done - and it can be undone .

Have you tried sitting DD down and telling her (during a quiet moment when it's just the two of you, obviously) that you are so sad that you don't have the mother/daughter bond that you want and that she needs, even though she may not realise it at the moment. And that as you are legally her parent and have parental responsibility, she will be moving with you and that one day she will realise it was for the best.

When you start arguing with her you are in danger of reverting to your 'child' status in the household, ie both bickering amongst yourselves as 'equals' whilst your mother rules the pair of you. Try to take a step back and calmly tell her that it is not up for discussion, then stay calm and don't engage, at all. Treat her like a toddler having a tantrum.
Eventually she will hopefully run out of steam because you cannot argue with a brick wall.

I think you should talk to your GP asap about getting your daughter a CAMHS referral, or go private if you can afford it. Your daughter needs to talk to someone who isn't you or your DM, so she can make sense of how manipulative her grandma is being and also talk through her worries about you, because her saying she dreads coming home to you is just awful. The poor kid must be all over the place. Or is there a pastoral care staff member or counsellor at her school she can see?

Great advice, thank you. I have tried to say those things to DD, that she needs her mother and I need to be her mother. I am guilty of overexplaining when I ought to treat her as a child who can't be expected to understand. It's just I do feel guilty when I say end of discussion that I'm dismissing her. But you are right, I need to brick wall and stop fuelling the arguments.