Divorce / family breakdown is hugely detrimental for the children

[Yogaqueen5]

This does not include obviously abusive relationships and situations where there is a very toxic environment at home and it is clearly going to be better to separate for all involved
I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them? I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?
Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

And yes my beloved children have really, really struggled as a result. But I had no choice and it's torture.

I agree with you, OP. Over the years as a single parent I have had a number of married friends 'peer over the fence' when pissed off with their partners/ going through a bad patch. I would say it's infinitely better to be a functioning single parent than in an intolerable/abusive relationship, but if you are just going through a boring grotty bit of marriage and falling out of love then ditching it for a messy divorce and all the drama of new partners, or the sheer bloody grind of single parenting is a bit selfish and stupid as the OP said will just leave you with a whole load of new problems.
Great that loads of people are able to co-parent amicably, but there's usually a hell of a lot of pain on all sides getting there.

Not RTFT but my personal experience is that it’s not the separation as such that damages kids as it’s a relief to be out of a toxic atmosphere. It’s more how the separated parents manage their lives afterwards that does the damage.

Children need to feel safe, that they matter and that the adult is emotionally strong enough to provide that. In my experience, if the parent(s) is dependent on finding a new partner and starting a new family, that is very destabilising for a child. The feeling of not being good enough and being second best is planted there and then.

As adults, we recognise that we have the right to find happiness and believe a happy adult means a happy child. Dependent children have no choice in the matter. They may seem to be ok with it, but inside they may feel wounded and vulnerable but know they have to pretend as what is the alternative? Be honest and risk knowing for definite that their feelings don’t matter.

I am not saying such feelings are inevitable but I think they are more common than adults admit.

Colouringin, I know where you are at. there comes a point where you have to save your own sanity and you have no other choice but to split up and move on.

Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

Maybe better for you OP. But sad you feel that way.

When did you lose your own power, to decide what is best for your life?

Never mind what is best for your kids who are being brought up in a lie.

Parents who have such an awful relationship that their kids wish they would separate will not necessarily do a better job of not fucking up their kids when divorced. Some parents have a relationship that is detrimental to their kids regardless. Of course sometimes divorce makes it even worse still and sometimes it makes it better - every situation is different.

What are these martyrs sacrificing their only shot at life to a loveless relationship meant to do about sex? Just never have it again? Seems like affairs would be a certainty in this situation. Definitely more trauma for the kids then.

What a load of utter crap.

Kids need a secure, loving home, respect, kindness and boundaries. A single parent is perfectly capable of providing that.

Thanks missy

Absolutely agree

I think a lot of parents are cowards and stay in unhappy marriages for their own sake and not for the children. They are scared to be single and have to cope on their own.

I think it is much more how the marriage breaks down, how the parents behave to each other and how they deal with sharing child care - that affects children.

Why would you want children to believe that being unhappy in a relationship is something to put up with?

yogaqueen5 you are brave to raise this. I am totally with you.

I have the same experience as you growing up with parents who were unhappily married. My dad stayed out of the house a lot but he was a good provider. My parents were basically incompatible. They are still together and I am so grateful to them they stayed together for me and my siblings. For those who think it is damaging for parents to model an unhappy marriage, me and both my siblings are in long term first marriages. If anything, my parents’ negative example of a marriage made me much more picky about my life partner.

I also agree with Daddystepdaddy.

Unfortunately for the reason given by Daddy, your views won’t get much traction on mumsnet. It is so simple from a child’s eyes, they just want their parents to be together under the same roof and living with them, even if unhappy, with the obvious caveat that so long as it is not toxic or abusive. I would never want to be the child whose parent married subsequently and who has a step sibling of that 2nd marriage and is pushed aside as a result. Of course, no parent will ever want to admit to this.

Myshiny: Why would you want children to believe that being unhappy in a relationship is something to put up with?

You are putting the thoughts and words of an adult into the mouth of a child. A child does not care about what you just said. They only want their mummy and daddy and their household, security and stability to stay intact. They want their family.

Littlepleasures is spot on. Children have no choice in the matter and end up having to put on a brave face and denying their own feelings so that adults can feel happy in new relationships.

Once again, this is with the heavy caveat that I am not talking about abusive or toxic relationships where the parents should not be together at all.

I haven't read all the comments. I think it's a fair discussion but I feel quite sure my children are experiencing a good childhood.

I put huge effort initially into forging a good co parenting relationship and now we seem to manage well.

Of course I have questioned whether I put my needs first. Of course I have felt guilt. Perfect for my DC would probably be their beloved parents happy in a loving relationship under one roof. I certainly don't think perfect would be living with a bad marriage.

Perhaps now is not perfect but it most certainly is not miserable or unhappy. They have two loving parents, two happy homes.

I think many separated parents make it work, you are perhaps not aware OP.

I would never want my children to believe they should 'settle' and I truly feel sad for those who do.
Nor would I want them to believe that is they make a mistake they need to shut up and put up with it. Forever.
Children see and feel everything. No way would I want to model a loveless marriage and have my children believe it is 'normal'. That might be ok for some but I set the bar a little higher for my children.

My ex-h grew up in a home where the parents stayed together 'for the children' Every one of those children is fucked up in some way.
I get that some parents don't have it in them to be able to navigate a separation and divorce with the children at the forefront but why not just say so. Don't dress it up as something else. Children can cope with pretty much anything, it's the parents that generally fuck it up and turn it into something else.

I was a child in a "saying together for the sake of the kids" family.

Profoundly impactful on both my brother and myself throughout that time and into adulthood, it spiralled into all sort of unpleasant atmosphere and missing examples of healthy behaviours and emotional elections for self, even if parents were doing their best for the complete opposite. So yes, it has potential to be damaging and in fact not best, throughout childhood and adolescence, as well is right through into adult relationships and self esteem.

Families are all sorts of shapes and sizes now. If a divorce or separation feels like it is the nasty type and there are children involved, then parents have to get a grip of themselves and remember they can do this in a way that supports their children or they can traumatise them. It's an adult choice and can be made. So no bitching about the other parent to the children no matter what, no letting the children overhear you discuss adult themes about the relationship with friends whilst you work through it, no arguing or shouting in front of them, no dropping your behaviour below it's previous stand e.g. swearing or shouting when you didn't before and sorry but you have to be a team, just a different kind, for your children. Plus be kind to each other, it's the decent thing to do and kids need to see family still being taken care of my each other.

This is interesting, especially on "civilised" divorces:

ifstudies.org/blog/when-and-why-divorce-hurts-kids

. I would never want to be the child whose parent married subsequently and who has a step sibling of that 2nd marriage and is pushed aside as a result. Of course, no parent will ever want to admit to this

“Fortunately” (punctuated this because I think it’s a load of bunkum) I won’t be getting married again. I’m presuming you mean half-sibling rather than step sibling? Won’t be happening here either.

@blueshoes not everyone wants to get married again after their first marriage failed. I don't want to do it again, I am happier by myself. I will never bring a new man into my home or my son's life and I don't want any more children. I think stepfamily situations bring too many problems and I would have trouble with any partner of mine trying to act as a parent to my child when he already has 2 involved parents.

I think that it depends on the child. If your child is soft and can't really handle a divorce then don't bloody do it. But if your child is older/unusually emotionally perceptive for their age then it may be better to go separate ways than to model a very dysfunctional relationship for them.

I won’t be getting married again. I’m presuming you mean half-sibling rather than step sibling? Won’t be happening here either.

Me neither. But actually a couple I know separated at the same time as we did but are now living with new partners, there's a step sibling and a half sibling on the way. Very very different from my choices and I must confess to being a bit questioning of it but it was very narrow minded if me. The children seem very happy. They have loving caring adults around who are thinking about them and taking care of them.

It’s true not everyone wants to marry again or even be in a LTR but most do.

The single for several decades and so happy about it is something I don’t see in rl, just MN.

I STRONGLY disagree.

I had two best friends all through primary and high school, let's call them Hannah and Kate.

Hannah's parents split up when she was 2. She doesn't remember it. Her dad moved out into a small house 2 miles away. Her parents split because things just werent working out, they hadn't planned a child and they probably weren't 'meant' for each other; Hannah doesn't remember the break up. Because they split while they still got on, it was all very amicable, and now 20-odd years later her parents are friends, chat regularly and get on well. Hannah did well in school and college, and knew if she had inevitable teenage angsty arguments with either parent she could go to the other's house for a night or two to let things defuse. She's now a nurse and is getting married this year and both parents will be there and probably sit on the same table, her mum with husband of ten years and dad with his new girlfriend.

Kate's parents never got on for as long as I can remember. I used to go round to her house when we were 5 and her parents would sit watching telly in separate rooms, one upstairs, one downstairs. They would take her out separately e.g. Saturday mum takes her to the zoo, Sunday dad takes her swimming. It was always obvious they didn't love each other but as they stayed together 'for the kids' you could see the resentment growing. When Kate was 13 she heard them talking about divorce and she told me in school 'my parents are FINALLY splitting up' - she hated seeing them both miserable - but they never did. Instead, her dad started working nights and her mum long days so they NEVER had to see each other. They built an extension off the back of the house that was like a man cave for the dad where he slept, and had his own TV, small cooking facilities and he used the downstairs toilet. It was such a weird set up. They finally split when Kate finished uni last year at 21 and had the 'you're old enough to understand now' talk. Kate told them how most of her years growing up were miserable because her parents either bickered or weren't there as they were trying to avoid one another. She wishes they'd split up when she was in primary school.

As for me, I always thought my family was 'the perfect family'. Dad has an amazing job, mum a SAHM with small business on the side, me and my sister good grades in school, 2 fancy holidays a year, brand new BMW on the driveway, big house. On the outside people always said 'you're so lucky'. But for me growing up was a nightmare. I was miserable and hated my mum, she was horrible to me for years. My dad left this year (after 30 years together) and said he'd fallen out of love with her a long time ago but stayed for me and my sister. I wish he'd left years ago because then my childhood wouldn't have been so miserable and I could have spent the bulk of my time with him. Now my mum is nearing 50 with no pension and no financial security for the future, bar a small amount of savings and a fancy house. My dad is currently on holiday with his new girlfriend and her kids.

My summary: divorce/break ups are never nice but the longer you stay for the wrong reasons the worse and messier it is later, for everyone.