Divorce / family breakdown is hugely detrimental for the children

[Yogaqueen5]

This does not include obviously abusive relationships and situations where there is a very toxic environment at home and it is clearly going to be better to separate for all involved
I’m talking more of those situations where people have supposedly fallen out of love, grown apart, not getting along and the advice often given on MN is to LTB and pursue personal happiness and gains over thinking about the greater good for the family. People are advised how it can be harmful to the kids to model a loveless marriage. But is that really worse than the alternative for them? I have friends and families going through messy divorces, seeing how horrible it is, and feel they’ve just exchanged one set of problems for another. Surely that’s not good for them or their kids?
Surely it’s better to just plod along in a less than ideal relationship?

This thread is hideous. So judgemental, patronising and littered with passive aggressive jibes. What a horrible thread OP.

You can’t use that to make general assumptions surely?

Didn’t your thread title do just that...?

My parents separated then got back together. Twice. I was 15 the second time and begged mum not to take the cheating bastard back. But she did.

The relationship between them had been poisonous for a decade, and it was so miserable for both me and my DB, let alone my DP.

It would have been far better all round if they had divorced the first time he left.

If you asked my mother she would tell you that I was happier after they split and that it was the best course of action.
She would tell you that I was fine.
Because that was what she wanted to see.

@yogaqueen5 you're also using your own experience to generalise. As I have stated my parents are divorced and my father is absent and it hasn't bothered me one iota.

However if one adult behavioural shows unreasonable behaviour it’s clear why the other person left

Really? Define ‘unreasonable behaviour’. To a clean freak, someone who doesn’t hoover 5 times a day is behaving unreasonably. To someone living knee deep in rubbish, hoovering more than once a year is unreasonable. Most of us stand at some point in the middle of those extremes but what is unreasonable is different for everyone.

@JacquesHammer my relationship stories with my exh would all be positive too. We never argue since we split up and he has been an involved father and paid maintenance from day one.

It's not divorce that's the issue, it's shitty parenting.

The idea that people divorce and then don't spare a thought for their children is total rubbish.

I hope some of the views on here dont represent general opinion. I had no idea that people would be judging me in this way.

People keep saying that they don't mean bad marriages or abusive marriages but they do. Even my family had no idea of the reality of marriage, covering up and putting on a happy front was required.

When people found out about the split they were shocked and could have felt I left at the drop of a hat. You honestly don't know what happens between people.

When people found out about the split they were shocked and could have felt I left at the drop of a hat. You honestly don't know what happens between people

This. If you have never been there, you can’t possibly know. I am sure some people make divorce look easy. But the assumption you made a decision to leave quickly and without any kind of thought as to the consequences on children because for onlookers, it was out of the blue, is a very, very wrong assumption.

And sadly, opall. I suspect much of what is being expressed here is general opinion and that people do judge. I had a school run mum once chastise me for being a ‘too happy single mum’ saying I should be miserable or people would think I didn’t care! Crazy!

I really don't believe the majority of couples go into marriage thinking 'oh well, I can always get a divorce'. I also believe that there are no guarantees. People change. And you cannot control it when that happens to the person you have chosen as a life partner.

I got married after we had been a couple for 5 years. We had our first child 3 years later. He was great - smart, funny, warm-hearted and generous. We both worked hard, shared goals, did our fair share of everything.

Then his dad died, and 3 years later his mum died. They weren't young, it was just mother nature. And his job changed until he hated it, but he wouldn't make the effort to find something else. He did find alcohol though.

He became sullen, withdrawn, lazy, constantly drinking, gave up on self care. I tried to be supportive, encouraged him to seek help and make changes - nada. I stayed for six and a half years. During hat time our DDs became teenagers and believe me, they noticed what was going on.

So in the end, I made him leave. The effect on our DDs? They have had counselling and support, and they are infinitely better than they were when he was still with us. They eat better, sleep well, their social lives have improved out of all recognition. They are confident, they are doing even better at school than they already were. And we are a relaxed, happy family of three. We have the odd squabble, but the dark shadow is gone.

I wonder how many people the OP is judging as 'should have plodded along in a less than optimal relationship; are living the same kind of life I lived for far too long. My only regret is not getting out years earlier. But you see, I was trying to stay for the sake of the children.

I had a school run mum once chastise me for being a ‘too happy single mum’ saying I should be miserable or people would think I didn’t care!

People are utter twats aren’t they. A school mum told me I was selfish because I’d upset her daughter because she was scared her parents would split up

Well neither are ideal for a kid are they; witnessing a loveless marriage at best or domestic abuse at worst or having your parents divorce, but you have to make a decision that is the best for a bad situation.

I divorced, my XH is basically a waste of space and I had a multitude of reasons for divorcing him - but we formed a pretty decent relationship pretty quickly for the sake of our DD and have maintained that (there having to be a hell of a lot of give and forgiveness on my part to keep it going) over the years.

But thanks for the guilt trip OP.

Shortly before we split my children's school referred us to social services because they were concerned about high levels of anxiety in the girls and because they could see I was struggling. My ex has Aspergers and is also controlling. I don't know if you would go so far as to call it abuse but we walked on eggshells to avoid his temper. Social services didn't take the referral but we had a TAC for a while. It was the impetus for me to leave. That was four years ago. Initially, it was tough. My younger had violent tantrums every night, my elder was paralysed by anxiety and blamed me for the split. Four years on it is oh so different. I have two very happy daughters, we are very close and we have so much fun together. They see their dad regularly for short bursts at a time which is what we have found works best. We just finalised an amicable divorce. The family breakdown was painful to our children at the time but not, in my view, detrimental to them in the longer term. We married after 3 years and started our family a year later so I don't think we rushed things eirher. Marriage vows should be taken seriously but if one party unilaterally breaks the contract, I don't think you can generalise to say that automatically means the kids are being harmed.

@ohreallyohreallyoh ... reasonable behaviour ... my ExH co parent fantastically there's no unreasonable behaviour as we can see and understand each other views. I don't always agree with him and he doesn't always agree with me but I know we have the best interests of our child at heart.

My DH and exW don't co parent both of their behaviours are unreasonable at time however the exW behaviour is bitter therefore I believe it's unreasonable. Also there's a court order in place due to her unreasonable behaviour- I don't have to explain what unreasonable behaviour is as the court decided her demands were unreasonable. The exw lost insight of her children's needs and put her bitterness, revenge and all negative emotions into trying to bring my DH down. It didn't work and now their poor DC are the ones who are suffering. I am not suffering, my DC isn't suffering. It's her own flesh and blood what have and are. So that's unreasonable.

Also I can say hand on heart the reason why I married my ex .. sadly my DH feels he was clinically depressed and can't remember any good times because her behaviour on the spilt made him hate her ... that's horrible and all I can feel it there time has been wasted.

So when ex's put there need of revenge before their own children... of course the DC will be damaged.

XH and I were together 26 years - we certainly didn't rush into a divorce. We get on well and are both supportive of the kids. It hasn't harmed them at all. Staying together would have though as we drove each other crazy.

Every family is different. Generalisations don't help anyone. You are not better than me because of your relationship status OP!!

Haven't rtft.

However. Regarding "happy parents equals happy kids" - what a crock of shit. Of course having happy parents cannot guarantee happy kids. But I've never been more certain of my decision to leave my abusive ex - when I was at my lowest there is no fucking way my kids were happy. I could hardly look after myself through the darkest days of fear, depression and fog that he put me through never mind support the eemotional wellbeing of my kids. Nor could they have been benefiting from being under the same roof - mum scared to let anyone in, unable to leave the house EVERY FUCKING MORNING FOR SCHOOL because daddy has played the hide the keys game again.

I absolutely made the right decision to move us out of that situation.

I am sceptical about the 'modelling health relationship' stuff.

My children since the split have seen me modelling no relationships at all. I am single and lonely. As far as I'm aware they have seen no relationship modelled by their father either. But I wouldn't know for sure because he and I no longer speak.

He sees the children, but by no stretch of the imagination are we amicable, nor are we co-parenting.

Well of course you could make the whole family miserable for nearly 30 years to ‘stay together for the children’ like my parents. Or you could make the sensible decision to co-parent and move on. I would recommend the latter IME.

Well we won't be staying togetherslightly that horse has bolted.

But his behaviour during the split has put paid to any attempts at doing anything in collaboration parenting or otherwise

So you do the best for your DCs that you can and model ‘healthy independent adulthood’. My parents argued, shrieked and shouted at each other for 26 years (I don’t remember pre-4 years old) it was truly awful. Then as my youngest sister left home got divorced anyway. As my middle sister said wtf was that all for then. Your kids will be ok. Good luck

Can I ask what people think about the idea of co parenting and living together if you still get on fine (and have enough room for separate rooms)?

I work with children and teenagers. I have lost count of the number of kids over the years have told me that they wish their parents would split up. I'm not just talking about kids who are living in domestically abusive homes either, usually just kids who know that one or both of their parents is unhappy. The parents usually think they are doing a good job of putting on a show and that their children are oblivious to their unhappiness/resentment/frustration.

Divorce/separation doesn't have to be "hugely detrimental" to children. It depends on how their parents handle the situation. What is hugely detrimental is when separated the parents argue or slag each other off in front of their DC, compete for their affection, undermine one another and basically leave them feeling caught 'in the middle'. I've worked with kids of divorced parents who are not willing to have any communication with one another, expecting their DC to pass on messages, which is very distressing for the child. Also very detrimental is when children are burdened with adult problems because their parents 'overshare' and lean on them for emotional support during their separation.

"Not saying that is the parents actual fault but I think we should be honest that parental divorce is probably the single worst thing (after their deaths) that can happen to a child."

Are you joking, or just incredibly ignorant?

@MinisterforCheekyFuckery yes yes yes

I got married 20 years ago as a practising Christian very very much committed to marriage as a life long commitment with my fiance that I'd been with for six years.

It was not an easy marriage. But we persevered because we were committed to our marriage.

Deciding to separate last year was, and is still the hardest and saddest decision of my life. We have two children. But I just can't stay with him. I have been so traumatised as a result of his severe mental illness that I'm constantly stressed.

Please don't judge people who choose to end their marriage. No-one knows what a marriage is like except the two people in it.