To ask if you’ve ever complained about a teacher

[Justwondering14]

It seems the view is that this shouldn’t ever be done.

I have complained a few times. Once about a male member of staff telling my fifteen year old she looked like she was enjoying that in a suggestive way when she had a lollipop.

Is it always ‘wrong’, then? I’m not a teacher ...

I complained when my DS who has autism and selective Mutism (can't speak in school) was made to jump into the deep end of the pool as a very new swimmer, thought he was drowning and yelled "help" (remember he didn't speak in school) and he was rescued by another student who reached for him, not by a teacher.

My complaint was that nobody told me this had happened. My boy was quite traumatised but because of his autism and communication difficulties it took hours for me to find out why he was so upset. The same school rang me when one of my other DC was bitten in nursery or when they fell over in the playground and got a nasty graze, but they didn't think they needed to tell me DS almost drowned?!

School was incredibly defensive and said it was up to the swimming teachers to contact me as they were in charge of the lesson (ds's class teacher was present, as were several TAs). I pointed out that the swimming teachers would not have my name, address and contact details. I never did get an apology.

I'm startled to see that you blame her for that.

I blame her for refusing to tell anyone what happened, what her part in it was, and for trying to place the blame on a wee boy who couldn’t have known what the consequences of his actions were. To be trained as an ASN teacher and then blame a wee boy with severe ASN to deflect blame from herself was abhorrent. She literally answered “no comment” to any question put to her by the head and depute. None from us, we didn’t want to intimidate anyone, we just wanted to hear, honestly, what had happened.

“Can you honestly say as a teacher that if you had been responsible for a severe injury because you weren’t doing what you should have been that your first instinct would be to protect yourself? If so, I think that’s very sad indeed”

Not my first instinct, no.

I don’t think a school can deny a teacher access to union representation if they want it. Many schools are run like small kingdoms, with the power solely in the hands of the head and governors and none with the staff. So by all means complain, but the teacher has the right to a neutral advisor who knows the law.
I have complained on occasion, I have had complaints made against me. It’s part of the job.

Yes I have twice.

Once was a misunderstanding that was quickly sorted out and was dropped immediately.

The other was when a teacher told my dc if they were as bad as my other dc (who she had never taught )

Thankfully our head is fantastic and I left it in her very capable hands.

Atm I do have a personality class with teen dd and teacher.

I understand his method of teaching but if he just gave 1 TINY TINY inch dd would slot right in.
She's not technically misbehaving e.g not putting her pen down when told to and then replying with "I was only writing the date which you told me too"
But obviously teacher doesn't want her replying which I've repeatedly told but she thinks she's hard done by and was behaving.

Not my first instinct, no

I’m glad. Because that was the sole reason she had her union rep, to intimidate us, and to prevent anything happening to her. She blamed the other boy from the get go. I had to trace his poor Mum and call her because she was distraught thinking I would blame her son, and he was traumatised by seeing DS1 unconscious and covered in blood.

If she had just done what everyone else did, it wouldn’t have escalated the way it did. They’d known me for 6 years by that point, and the rest knew I would be calm and listen.

SoddingUnicorns

Union Reps aren’t there to back up every teacher, they are there to ensure any process happens fairly and legally-even if that goes against the teacher. I think your anger stems from the assumption that the rep was there to support the teacher against what happened. Absolutely not the case. They are there to make sure everything happens correctly for both sides as an independent witness who knows the correct procedures, even if the correct action is that the teacher faces consequences.

SoddingUnicorns

That's up to you. I can't blame her, personally, for not immediately admitting her own liability in a potentially career-ending situation. She was absolutely entitled to treat it formally and seriously. As you have said, your son was seriously hurt. No amount of 'this is just a chat' (where you tell us exactly what you did wrong and admit fault) would see me in that room on my own.

Can you honestly say as a teacher that if you had been responsible for a severe injury because you weren’t doing what you should have been that your first instinct would be to protect yourself? If so, I think that’s very sad indeed.

My first instinct would be to seek medical help and make sure the child was okay. My second instinct would be to make sure I was treated fairly. I don't care what you think about that.

I have complained twice, with a heavy heart. I know that teaching is a tough job, and I think the majority of teachers work really hard, so I would never complain lightly, but sometimes it is necessary.

First time was when dd was at primary school. It wasn't really a complaint so much as feedback in relation to a trainee teacher who was clearly in need of more support with classroom management. DD was getting really upset about some very nasty things that this woman was saying to her friends - calling them stupid, telling them she didn't like them etc. The comments weren't actually directed at dd but she was really distressed because she knew it was wrong, so I fed back to her main class teacher. Support was put into place and the situation improved.

Second time was at secondary. One of the teachers was utterly useless, spent all lesson on Facebook or booking his holidays, didn't really teach the kids anything. Was very "funny" but completely disengaged from his actual job. Did random things like emptying people's pencil cases all over the floor to see how they would react, or chucking things at people, eating sweets all through the lesson. And told the that he would "put on his professional face" for their parents at parents' evening. DD thought he was hilarious at first, but became increasingly frustrated as she realised that any learning she was going to do in that subject was going to have to be completely self taught. I complained to the head teacher, and don't think he was the only one. He left shortly afterwards, not sure if he resigned or was sacked.

I do make a point of thanking the really good teachers and feeding back the positive stuff. Most teachers work really, really hard, so if there is someone who is just taking the piss, I think it's fair enough to complain. However, I would only do it with really good reason - at the end of the day, it's someone's career on the line.

Not sure why teachers are different to any other employee, and that includes those who work with children, elderly, vulnerable adults etc in other situations before that’s pointed out.

We’re all entitled to the same legal rights, as we should be. If you’ve messed up and done something that’s serious enough to be “career threatening” then you have to take the consequences, not cover you’re backside and refuse to engage without a TU rep speaking on your behalf and only saying “no comment”!!

@KittyVonCatsington absolutely, I’m not against union reps. They definitely have their place and are a valuable asset, just not in this case.

I’m not anti-teacher, at all. DS1 has been fortunate enough to have some incredible teachers over the years, ones who have made an enormous difference to his life and how he copes. Which I am extremely grateful for. Three in particular, who are just the kind of inspirational women who don’t realise just what a positive and lifelong impact they have on the children they teach. His current class teacher is fantastic and is someone who has supported, guided and helped DS1 prepare for high school and even go on the residential trip this year. (Yes I have emailed the education department to wax lyrical about how brilliant she is).

Mistakes happen in every job, it’s normal and it’s human. If a teacher bollocked one of my kids, I wouldn’t bat an eyelid. In fact, I’d support them. But it’s how we deal with our mistakes that defines us, and she was bang out of line.

Kitty, I am not ‘blaming’ her for anything but I just wouldn’t be making my child give up her lunch as well to complete homework set in her absence. I’m not sure one piece of homework is so critical the entire syllabus rests on it.

Dorsetdays

In that case, the union rep would have been prevented from attending, wouldn't they? How confusing. In any case, I would consult them and see whether they were able to be there.

And, obviously, a 'chat' where my attendance can be compelled by my employer in order to establish a set of facts about my behaviour is not an 'informal chat'. It is a meeting at which I will be questioned. Not a chat.

Dorsetdays

Teachers aren't different from any other employee where union membership is allowed. They are the same. They are entitled to consult their union Rep exactly as everyone else is.

I have complained about teachers 3 times.

First incident where I complained directly to the teacher- DS1 has ASD and has a lot of food related issues. He was supposed to be making a pizza in food tech with ingredients brought from home. I supplied all the ingredients as requested although I know he detests sweet corn. Made the pizza, he was told to put the sweet corn on top. He didn't want to, teacher persisted and DS resisted. She poured the sweet corn on, DS panicked and put the pizza in the bin. His TA was there and trying to diffuse the situation throughout. Teacher rang me at home to say there has been a drama and how his behaviour was unacceptable. I told her that I thought it could have been handled better and it would be better and less frustrating for everyone if she just listened to the TA and gave the sweetcorn a miss if it was going to end up in a public standoff.

2nd incident - I complained to the deputy head. DS1 had been absent due to illness and missed a few days work. Parents evening was at the end of the same week where I apologised for his absence. The form teacher told me that the whole class had been 'glad of the break from him' in front of DS. Maybe true but an unprofessional comment to make in front of a parent and child. Deputy head 'had a word'

3rd incident - another parents evening, a few years later. Another DT teacher complained about DS's behaviour which had occurred a few weeks earlier in school. I hadn't been informed so had no idea. Instead of having a discussion about how to sanction DS and move forward it was just a very loud personal tirade of how much he disliked DS and how he didn't want him in his class. I was in tears, other parents were eavesdropping, my other children were scared and crying and I ended up shouting back at him as he just wouldn't stop. I complained to the head of year as another parent had run over to her and said he was almost out of control. Head of year escorted us to her office to apologise and the headteacher walked the DT teacher to his office. He wasn't seen at the school again.

My DS1 is a difficult child and I am under no illusions, however I do expect teachers to remain professional in their dealings, the same way as I do in my job.

My first instinct would be to seek medical help and make sure the child was okay. My second instinct would be to make sure I was treated fairly. I don't care what you think about that

She didn’t either. Mind you, at least you’d have called for medical help.

But to be honest faced by someone with the attitude that they didn’t care what I thought despite their inaction causing such a severe injury is why I escalated it. So I’d be a tad wary about that being your default position. Looking like you’re covering your own arse isn’t a good look

One when I took a child's water bottle off her for the afternoon
Second was when I told a girl next time she didn't have her PE kit I would make her do it in her kninkers

Please tell me the school didn’t follow through on these complaints?

SoddingUnicorns

And yet I am still absolutely entitled to do it, so I would. It sounds like this was a very serious incident, and I would be a fool if I believed someone saying they just wanted 'a chat' about their child ending up unconscious and covered in blood when I was meant to be watching them. I am not a fool, and yes, I would do what I felt I needed to to make sure I was treated fairly.

Surely if you are trying to ascertain the facts, understand the consequences and the legalities of what should happen next, you’d want someone there that knew the laws? Just like if the police want to question you informally, you have the right to free legal representation and don’t have to say anything until you have that advice available. Or you can refuse, unless you are under arrest.

TheNebulousBoojam

Exactly. If you take the view expressed here, nobody needs a solicitor. If you've done nothing wrong, a 'chat' will clear that up (in a police interview room, where someone is writing down what you say, of course). If you have, what on earth do you want advice for? You should just hold your hands up and let them march you off to Strangeways.

The teacher would be giving up her lunch time too! And not all of it either! 20 minutes out of 55 minutes to give some 1:1 help so the pupil could feel secure in completing the work. And yes, if that poem came up on the exam and the pupil hadn't completed the work it would impact. Your lack of understanding about how the curriculum and GCSE exam works and the fact that you clearly place no trust at all in the professional who does know, cause the issue. Not the teacher trying to ensure your child is caught up after illness.

Pengwynn. And that’s exactly why I said the school shouldn’t have allowed it.

For info, your employer can expect you to attend any meeting they require (obviously with reasonable notice in working time etc etc) and any reasonable employee would agree with that, it’s called communication.

We can argue all day over informal/formal but the facts remain.. you are required to attend, you don’t have any right to bring a TU rep (or anyone else) and if you chose not to attend you are passing up your opportunity to present the facts as you see it.

Too much arse covering here me thinks! Once the facts are established, the school then decide if any formal action should be taken and you get your rights to be accompanied and the full legal process then so really no need for it.

Pengwynn. I didn’t say you couldn’t consult your rep, I said you have no legal right to bring them to an informal meeting. There’s a difference.