To ask if you’ve ever complained about a teacher

[Justwondering14]

It seems the view is that this shouldn’t ever be done.

I have complained a few times. Once about a male member of staff telling my fifteen year old she looked like she was enjoying that in a suggestive way when she had a lollipop.

Is it always ‘wrong’, then? I’m not a teacher ...

I wouldn’t expect a teacher to bring union representation if the meeting was informal (I.e just to ascertain the facts or to raise the initial complaint with the school).

I have, perhaps 4 or 5 times. I've had 6 kids go through the same schools over a 20 year time frame. I back the school up on discipline, uniform, homework, etc etc.

So when I complain I'm listened to, and taken seriously.

I complained at a teacher who had my Yr 4 daughter in tears everyday. She'd gone from being a kid that LOVED school, to one who dreaded it. Something wasn't right. I went in and asked them to switch her tutor group, as clearly she didn't get on with the new (to the school) teacher. Turns out the teacher was actually quite ill with MH issues and had singled out a couple of kids that she just didn't like much. Her reason for disliking my child so much 'she smiles ALL the time, it's like she's laughing at me'. She left at the Oct half term and my sunny child returned.

I complained when one of mine broke their jaw on a playground stone curb and no-one called me. First I knew was when I picked her up and her face was literally purple from ear to ear.

I complained when my son was given a 3 day exclusion after running from school. It took 3 teachers to get him down from the fence he was trying to escape over. Fair enough..... but he was running because he'd been cornered in the changing rooms by 3 boys and hit, they got 1 day exclusions each.

All 3 complaints got things changed.

The others were less serious, but important to me and my kids at the time.

I don't think it's wrong to complain, just be sensible about what you're making a complaint about.

Am a teacher. Complain away so long as you also write compliment emails when something goes well. The attached pictsure is how it feels in teaching. I once had a parent formally complain because her DC had chosen to study my A Level and the textbook was too expensive so I need to either low the price or chose a different exam board. I’m not amazon, I don’t set the prices and I actually photocopy the relevant pages for the kids without textbooks every lesson. I still have to teach her kid but have a mark against my name.

And don’t ever accuse a teacher of lying unless you are 100% certain they are. Children behave very differently with their peers (most of whom, if secondary, you’ve never even heard of)

You might not, but there are plenty of parents that would OP.

I don’t think it’s necessarily lying either. Sometimes it’s a different interpretation of what actually happened, sometimes ir’s Slighted teenagers just mouthing off at how they feel they’ve been wronged. It works the other way from home to school as well.

Obviously there are times when a child is outright lying or when a complaint is justified but the majority of the time it’s usually a good idea to make sure you have all the facts even if your child ‘never lies’ so must be telling the truth.

You seem to be expecting the teacher to have known beforehand that you intended to be open-minded and reasonable, rather than punitive.

The head, depute, other 4 members of staff all knew. I had specifically said, in a conference call, to all the staff involved that I wasn’t angry, I just wanted to know the circumstances of such a severe injury to my child.

She had tried to blame the other boy, which was profoundly unfair as due to his disability he had no way of understanding the implications of his actions, and should have been supervised 2 to 1 in the playground. The other of the 2 didn’t feel the need to cover their own arse, they apologised. Nobody’s career was on the line, at that point we weren’t even considering a formal complaint. And had she been a halfway decent human being, we wouldn’t have.

It was her attitude throughout that pushed us to make one.

Mistakes happen. I fully and completely understand that. I actually really appreciate the other staff members’ explanations of what happened (DS1 cannot explain because he’s autistic and finds that very hard) and their genuine apologies. I also appreciated the head implementing further strategies in the playground so that it never happened again, and removing the blame from the other boy who caused the injury because I felt that was extremely unfair given the circumstances.

What I didn’t appreciate was a woman who had put having a coffee over doing her job, getting shitty with me, when I hadn’t with her, while my son was recovering from a fractured skull, concussion, stitches and trying to come to terms with what had happened to him.

Nobody else did, why did she?

Dorsetdays

There is no such thing as 'informal' when someone has been seriously hurt.

I don't think it's wrong to complain, just be sensible about what you're making a complaint about
I agree completely.
If you have a query, call us for a chat and that'll resolve most things in ny experience

If it needs to go further, be sensible with what your complaints are about and be polite and reasonable. Always speak to the most appropriate person for the issue (avoid going to the head under the view you'll be taken more seriously, you won't).

If the matter isn't resolved and it's a serious issue then follow thr complaints procedure which every school will have. Eventually it will go out of school if needed.

Oh, and don't listen to angry MN mobs who trot out 'go to the LA / threaten them with Ofsted if they don't...' because doing that makes you look ridiculous.

“I wouldn’t expect a teacher to bring union representation if the meeting was informal (I.e just to ascertain the facts or to raise the initial complaint with the school).”
Why not? You could have brought a friend or supporter if you’d wanted to?

There is no such thing as 'informal' when someone has been seriously hurt

There is. That meeting. Please don’t tell me it wasn’t, because unless you were there, you cannot say that. It was literally a fact finding chat, a week later, so DP and I could find out the circumstances and try and come up with a way to make the playground safe for all the children. I’ve always had a good relationship with the school, they know me well.

SoddingUnicorns

Of course her career was on the line. Your child got seriously hurt. That is surely the issue here, not the fact that she - as was her right - sought advice from her union. An apology isn't a neutral thing, it is an admission of culpability. I certainly wouldn't make one off-the-cuff without understanding the legal ramifications. If the TAs did so, that is their decision and prerogative, but equally, it may have come back and bit them in the arse.

Anyway, when you say she had put having a coffee over doing her job, does that mean she was on her break? Not sure what happened in this situation but I am sure I do not disagree with her consulting her union.

No, I've never complained about a teacher. There was something that annoyed me when dd was in year 8, but I approached it by emailing the teacher concerned and asking about it and it was resolved like that.

I think many mumsnetters find it hard to tell the difference between-

“Make sure you’ve got all the facts and heard both sides of the story before you go in all gun blazing”

and

“Never make a complaint about a teacher, they are above reproach and your child must be lying”

A subtle difference, I realize.........

SoddingUnicorns

A 'fact finding chat' where she would have been asked to apologise? Hmm. Okay.

Anyway, we aren't going to agree so let's leave it there.

Um, no I couldn’t! There is no legal right to just bring anyone along to an internal meeting (or even to a formal disciplinary meeting).

In fact the only legal right is to be ‘accompanied’ by a workplace colleague or a TU member. That doesn’t mean they represent you or speak on your behalf (unless all parties agree).

So no, I wouldn’t expect a teacher to bring a TU rep along to an initial meeting which from the OPs description was to ask what had happened and I certainly wouldn’t have expected the school to allow it!

I wouldn’t complain about it but if my child was really ill I wouldn’t be making them do homework.

The teacher understood that the work hadn’t been done when ill but as the work was important, asked for the work to be caught up now the child is well again, including the teacher giving up their lunchtime to help catch the child up and instead got abuse.

Yeah, shocking behaviour of that teacher

'In fact the only legal right is to be ‘accompanied’ by a workplace colleague or a TU member'

'I certainly wouldn’t have expected the school to allow it!'

If the chat is a chat, I am not obligated to be there. If it is a meeting, I can bring a union rep. You can't have it both ways.

Yes, 1 teacher over his treatment of DS1. In hindsight we should have gone the formal written complaint route rather than a meeting with the Head with no paperwork. We got things sorted for DS1, but I don't think the teacher ever accepted any wrong doing. DS1's ASD unit have spent most of the school year trying to undo the damage.

Anyway, when you say she had put having a coffee over doing her job, does that mean she was on her break?

No, instead of being one of 2 people in the playground to specifically support the wee boy, she was over the other side of the playground drinking coffee. The other one who was doing the same apologised. Both had taken their eye off the ball, and both had messed up. But only one felt the need and had the nerve to be combative and defensive about it.

DP and I expressly said, many times in the week before the informal chat, that it wasn’t about disciplinary proceedings or blame, it was just about making sure that the playground was safe for all the children. The wee boy who caused it included.

It might sound wrong written down, but the whole thing should have been very informal and about practical ways to prevent such a severe injury happening again while making sure that no child was excluded (the original plan was to keep the wee boy separate at break times which seemed very unfair). I was stunned to see her union rep and the attitude of the teacher involved, there was no call for it, and she was out of order.

SoddingUnicorns

Sorry, but I completely disagree. She was in the wrong, so all the more need to have someone with her.

I'm startled to see that you blame her for that.

If the chat is a chat, I am not obligated to be there. If it is a meeting, I can bring a union rep. You can't have it both ways
This.
I'll be honest if I was in a situation where there was any suggestion that my actions led to harm to a child I wouldn't be going to any meeting or chat without a union rep with me.
The real issue is the situation that caused the meeting/chat, not the fact a member of staff opted to be accompanied by a union rep.

A 'fact finding chat' where she would have been asked to apologise? Hmm. Okay.

Where have I said she’d have been asked to apologise? You made that up.

It was a a fact finding chat, clearly you have the same understanding of that as she did. Not my fault I’m afraid.

Can you honestly say as a teacher that if you had been responsible for a severe injury because you weren’t doing what you should have been that your first instinct would be to protect yourself? If so, I think that’s very sad indeed.

When I was in yr10/11 (for context I'm 28 now) my physics teacher lost my GCSE course work. My DM backed up the teachers view that I was lying about doing it at all, despite having 5 classmates back me up that they'd seen it and seen me hand it in at the same time as theirs, so I had to redo it. He lost it again. This time DM had gone over it when it was complete to see that I'd done it and had my cousin (year below) come with me to hand it in. I was asked to do it again. Luckily I'd scanned a copy onto my computer prior to handing it in due to it previously disappearing.
DM handed it into the teacher herself the third time(the morning of the internal assessment for coursework) and miraculously it didn't disappear this time. However I came very close to missing out my physics GCSE because of his incompetence to safely store coursework.

My mum complained and for my cousin's exams (the next year) all coursework had to be handed in to a central point and signed for with receipts given to ensure nothing went missing.

The point is, everyone is quick to assume the child is lying, but they then seem to have complete faith that the teacher will be telling the complete truth, which as humans isn't always the case, especially when they want to save their own ass.

Every story has 3 renditions, your version, their version and the truth.

Pengwynn. You need to get your legal facts right.

1. As an employee you are required to attend a meeting if it is to establish facts around an issue, especially if that that could potential be a disciplinary or capability issue.
2. there is no legal right to be accompanied by either a colleague or a TU rep at that meeting.
3. if you choose not to attend or to engage then a deck on would be made simply on the facts they have I.e the parents/child’s point of view. You’ve missed you’re opportunity to have your say which would be silly and unprofessional to say the least.
4. any decent TU rep would confirm that the school would be remiss (not to say unfair) if they skipped the informal stages and went straight to the formal disciplinary or capability so they would be required to hold informal meetings initially to establish the facts

The teacher may well have been a nasty piece of work, out of order and completely in the wrong. Sounds like she was.But not for having her union rep with her.

Sorry, that was mean to be response to MaisyPops