In Connecticut, two teenage boys who identify as girls have come 1st and 2nd in the girls' 100m sprint

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/GameTimeCT/status/1003739370736816129

Reposted from Feminism Chat as more people need to see this.

Neither Miller nor Yearwood have got times that would be remotely remarkable for boys (200th and 443rd respectively) but they are smashing the girls' records out of the park as now they identify as girls, they're allowed to race them instead.

Watch the face of the girl who comes third. That's pretty much her best ever 100m race. But she didn't win.

Self identification means this kind of thing will keep on happening. If you value women's sport and think that women and girls deserve to compete on a level playing field, please sign the petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

I notice that none of the media stories about the parents of the girls involved complaining were taking comments. Probably all too aware how other parents were likely to react to such blatant cheating by TIM.

That Allsorts 'advice' is extraordinary.

@SuitedandBooted

Wow. Just...wow.

@SuitedandBooted

Wow. Just...wow.

I know MissionItsPossible & Timelady. That's what's being fed to kids in our schools.
Have a look at the Feminist Chat board on MN.

I guarantee your flabber will be well and truly gasted.

Some cracking, ahem, other side "arguments" on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3274513-i-just-peak-trans-d-again

Don't read it when your're drinking your tea. Messy.

One of the most influential, powerful and visible institutions upholding the gender binary is sport – where participation is predominantly segregated by biological sex, rooted in the widely-held beliefs about fairness and the biological advantages associated with being male. Such beliefs are over-simplistic, legitimise discrimination, and hinder the sports participation of transgender (intersex, trans, non-binary) individuals. With the rapidly growing societal visibility of transgender people, there is an unprecedented need to address areas where discrimination may arise

Wow. This undeniably shows that some transactivists/ people are absolutely out to put their rights above women's rights/ FEMALE rights, and will happily displace women for their own ends regardless of the effects on anymoen else. It is incredibly selfish/ narcisstic. This is not a pursuit of fairness or equality, it is an abuse and manipulation of those principles.

Serena Williams is a tough and supremely competitive and able athlete, and yet she has said that she would fair very poorly against even an average male tennis professional. Why does her educated and hard-earned opinion count for absolutely nothing?

No one is trying to stop trans people from exercising, only to maintain sex segregation for competition or for safety at amateur level. It isn't about freinds doing sport together or bunch of strangers joining a group run in the park.

So many other people are excluded from competitive sport for umpteen reasons and they just have to accept it.

I have read about other scientists publishing in trans subjects, including sport who turn out to be trans themselves and are clearly biased in the their obejctives and methodology and from what I can see are not held to the same academic standards and scrutiny that other subjects are for fear of being labelled transphobic. And with the deadnaming issue it can be hard to name people as trans and therefore expose their in-built bias. This is dangerous I think. Especially when others are expected to disclose affiliations or funding etc in the name of transparency and accountability and an open and inclusive society. But trans.. well that is different and special, that can be secret.

Is there anyone on this board who thinks this race was fair?

I wonder if all those who might think this race fair would be of the same opinion if they had daughters desperate to win a scholarship or a race...

I think not.

And if those two runners wish to have children? I wish them daughters. Let them tell their daughters it is fair...

Anyone who thought this was fair wouldn’t be on this board in the first place.

Are there any reliable figures for how many self declared trans persons there are? I only ask because I can see that treating them as a separate group for sport might often mean that there were not enough to form a team or to provide opposition. JTB of course. Just like it is preposterous to expect a third set of loos in every public place or workplace.

But the Paralympics manages the problem of small numbers of competitors with specific disabilities by holding a race where maybe 8 people compete but there will be two gold medals, two silver and two bronze medals because they are only directly competing against the others in their category. It would be possible to come up with similar categories for trans athletes ("AMAB no surgical intervention testosterone levels of X" "AMAB full surgical intervention testosterone levels of Y" etc etc). But that would require the acceptance that they were trans rather than actually becoming male or female. And obviously wouldn't work for team sports like rugby, only individual sports

It would also be highly intrusive!

It would also be highly intrusive

Well, yes. But so is Paralympic assessment. And drug testing which even amateur athletes have. Never mind "gender testing" to which female athletes have been subjected over the years

Paralympic assessment is unavoidable, and drug testing is confidential if you are negative. But what on earth is gender testing?

@Andrewofgg I’d have thought it self explanatory?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_verification_in_sports

It's over sport that the world and his wife will peak trans when a major story breaks.

Sorry Mission - this is one abomination I had not heard about!

'Advise from Allsorts to schools in SUSSEX'

In this instance trans people are not asking to be treated the same but rather differently. Despite being male they want to run in a girls race. It's not about people being comfortable around them or not, it is about races being segregated by sex.

That advice is crap, I hope someone will challenge it. This really only goers one way, against girls. I wish this could be talked about more openly.

The only sport I can think of where the sex of the participant may not make a big difference is something like dressage! I wonder if the girls can get their school to buy some ponies!

It’s called gender testing but of course it’s sex testing. There is no scientific test for gender.

What some female atheletes have been subjected to by their countries is very distressing - the physical effects will be with them for life.

But there is no need for scientific testing of gender!

It's easy-peasy, you just say what you feel you are and hey presto! You are that gender, and therefore that actual sex (and the Emperor has no clothes but that part is glossed over...)

*It would also be highly intrusive

Well, yes. But so is Paralympic assessment. And drug testing which even amateur athletes have. Never mind "gender testing" to which female athletes have been subjected over the years*

Absolutely .... to be trans and actually altering your body (rather than just saying so like these two boys) you have to be chock full of hormones which must need to be declared for any drugs tests.... So no, not actually very intrusive at high level sport.....

And self-declaration to be "assisted" I think is the term used in amateur races feels like a fair way to approach it....

I am pretty sure it is the germans who now have Male, Female and MtF winners in races .... though sadly I think the MtF run in the Women's races, though are not recognised as the outright winners... Does anyone know?

It would also be highly intrusive

Well, yes. But so is Paralympic assessment. And drug testing which even amateur athletes have. Never mind "gender testing" to which female athletes have been subjected over the years

Absolutely .... to be trans and actually altering your body (rather than just saying so like these two boys) you have to be chock full of hormones which must need to be declared for any drugs tests.... So no, not actually very intrusive at high level sport.....

And self-declaration to be "assisted" I think is the term used in amateur races feels like a fair way to approach it....

I am pretty sure it is the germans who now have Male, Female and MtF winners in races .... though sadly I think the MtF run in the Women's races, though are not recognised as the outright winners... Does anyone know?

drug testing is confidential if you are negative.

The process is pretty intrusive though. Urine samples have to be "provided" in a room with at least one observer to ensure that the sample is not tampered with in any way. This starts at relatively low down amateur competition in sports like athletics and swimming (I had friends who regularly had to pee into a container in front of an unknown adult when I was a teenager). For elite level athletes, they can be tested at random out of competition too. Literally someone turns up on your doorstep and requires you to pee into a container for them

but surely all trans people would need to be tested for drugs anyway if they are taking them - I know they have to stay below a certain testosterone level, and my understanding is that quite a large number - is it a third - can't do this, even while being pumped full of female hormones.....