In Connecticut, two teenage boys who identify as girls have come 1st and 2nd in the girls' 100m sprint

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/GameTimeCT/status/1003739370736816129

Reposted from Feminism Chat as more people need to see this.

Neither Miller nor Yearwood have got times that would be remotely remarkable for boys (200th and 443rd respectively) but they are smashing the girls' records out of the park as now they identify as girls, they're allowed to race them instead.

Watch the face of the girl who comes third. That's pretty much her best ever 100m race. But she didn't win.

Self identification means this kind of thing will keep on happening. If you value women's sport and think that women and girls deserve to compete on a level playing field, please sign the petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

saltandvinegarcrisps1

For some, the dressing up is a fetish, known as AGP.

mirandayardley.com/en/what-autogynephilia-is-and-what-is-it-not-a-brief-note/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

Very different to those with gender dysphoria, but still included under the 'trans' umbrella.

Yes you’d think no one could rationalise and defend this case in Connecticut but then again mobile.twitter.com/aedison/status/1005541578243497985

Regarding misgendering.

I’m not interested in gender I’m interested in sex. So when I use the pronouns him, he his I am sexing the individual.

I’m talking about the political and sociological impact of ignoring sex. Ignoring sex disadvantages women. Being unable to correctly sex people will make my arguments incoherent.

It’s not reasonable in this particular circumstance to impose transgendered pronouns on my use of language. If anything policing my language in this way is subjecting me to a hostile environment and if my posts are deleted then I’m subjected to a detriment for stating my feminist beliefs (which are protected by the Equality Act.)

So I have a right protected by the Equality Act to call a TW a man in this particular context.

Ridiculously unfair

Re misgendering, I know lots of people on mn have a problem with using preferred pronouns.

But mn have been really clear that they consider deliberate misgendering of named individuals as something that breaks talk guidelines. There's been discussion of this choice on mn's part in site stuff if you want to learn more about why they've taken that decision or ask them about it.

Meanwhile, this thread is largely about two teenagers, who are named in the OP. They are real people. Maybe imagine for a moment having your kid, or some other kid you cared about, being dicussed like some of the posts on here have discussed this two children. I

f you really don't want to use "she" or "trans girls", gender neautral alternatives are available.

Poor girl must feel like giving up now!

We are thinking of the girls

I am not calling those two boys "her" or "she" or "girls". Because they aren't.

I consider guidelines that hinder expression of gender critical feminist beliefs to be in breach of the Equality Act

Plus if those two boys (and their parents) really don't want to be discussed in the media etc, they have 2 easy solutions:

1. Run with the boys - and lose, badly, as their times are nowhere near
   the winners in the male races.

2. Drop out of competitive sport - happens to the best of us. You can't
   always get everything you want.

Magpiesarehuge
Yes you’d think no one could rationalise and defend this case in Connecticut but then again mobile.twitter.com/aedison/status/1005541578243497985

that thread is nuts

lol at the 'justification' that sportswomen earn less so why would anyone want to do it

That argument is basically: sexism exists therefore men are women

Bunch of idiots

maybe imagine for a moment having your kid... being discussed like some of the posts on here have discussed this two children
Wouldn't have happened, because I brought my kids up to a) not be cheats and b) not to be selfish and put their own wishes ahead of other people's rights in this way.

YANBU it's a joke

I do despair with some humans - there is a tendency to be so one extreme or the other: we have seemed to either segregate the sexes based on zero science (eg religious nonsense, sexism, abuse of power/physiology) and then seemingly are putting a stop to that, but actually are swinging straight past moderate and balanced views to the other extreme where there is going to be no segregation of sex but the blind worship of the (nebulous and disputed concepts of) gender, and with the utter rejection of fact and science.

I am sick of women always being the ones doing the worst out of the whatever mindset is prevailing.

Longlostpal - are you suggesting male anatomy is 'better' than female?

Of course it's unfair; two men get the athletic scholarships set aside for women that they would have no chance of getting as men.
I'm all for anyone dressing any way they please, and doing what the hell they like with the content of their underpants, but I draw the line and women being pushed out of their opportunities to suit men.
If it's such a big deal, have transgender category

I’m don’t know much about it, but once trans people start taking hormones wouldbtnit even out the playing field anyway? As in they would lose the natural advantage that testosterone gives them?

Whilst I can see how frustrating it must be for the other girls competing, surely no one thinks that high school boys are deciding to totally change their lives to live as girls, and taking all of the bullying and harassment that would come with being openly trans in high school, just to win a high school race????

They don't just win a race. They get their university paid for.

’m don’t know much about it, but once trans people start taking hormones wouldbtnit even out the playing field anyway? As in they would lose the natural advantage that testosterone gives them?

No it doesn’t. Because testosterone shapes the body and those changes are mainly permanent. So a male will have a skeletal system sculpted by testosterone- stronger and larger than a female. Even in two adults of the same height the male skeleton is different - larger muscle attachments for example, different pelvis shape. Pelvis shape is important- one of the reasons men are more efficient runners os that the wider female pelvis creates a different angle through hip to foot.

So the whole male body is stronger. If you reduce testosterone you get a bit of muscle atrophy but you don’t change the core physiology - that’s still male.

Let’s put it this way - an archaeologist digging up a bunch of men and transwomen in 600 years time would not be able to distinguish between them.

pecano no the advantage doesn't go away when testosterone is reduced. How talk s the average man? And how tall is the average woman? The muscles are already developed and are different to female muscles. Beyond puberty male and female bodies are different if someone has been through male puberty taking hormones in late teen won't undo that.

One of those boys only started taking girl's places in races three weeks ago.

Even if these boys don't end up with scholarships that should have gone to girls winning a statewide race is a big freaking deal.

High school boys in Connecticut are not required to have any medical treatment for being trans anyway. This is what self ID looks like.

black shutters even if it's a friendly race and nothing depends on it it's still a very big deal. Effectively it's saying we have elite men's races and a mixed sex race - which given male physical advantage will be won by a male. Bye bye womens sport.

Pecano
These boys havent take any medical steps to transitioning (good because they are children!)

This isnt just a highschool race this is a statewide race, athletic scholarships to university are a huge deal in the USA - the difference iof someone gaining access to further education or not.

On the wider question
It's not just about testosterone - men have a different skeleton (why we can easily sex ancient human remains), narrower pelvis means the angle from hip to knee is different (better for running), muscle fibres & bone density is different (why it's older women you think of with osteoporosis not older men), they never have a menstrual cycle to contend with when training, their hearts are much bigger than women as are their lungs which leads to much greater VO2max.

Women are not men minus testosterone!!

Oh ffs I type too slowly ignore me & read bowl!