In Connecticut, two teenage boys who identify as girls have come 1st and 2nd in the girls' 100m sprint

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/GameTimeCT/status/1003739370736816129

Reposted from Feminism Chat as more people need to see this.

Neither Miller nor Yearwood have got times that would be remotely remarkable for boys (200th and 443rd respectively) but they are smashing the girls' records out of the park as now they identify as girls, they're allowed to race them instead.

Watch the face of the girl who comes third. That's pretty much her best ever 100m race. But she didn't win.

Self identification means this kind of thing will keep on happening. If you value women's sport and think that women and girls deserve to compete on a level playing field, please sign the petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

pecano the evidence is also clear from real results eg the example given upthread where a New Zealand transwoman bike rider had previously been a mid-grade rider in the male category, then with just weeks in between, transitioned and became the National Champion inn the womens event.

All they had done was lowered their testosterone to under 10mmols - which is the max allowed for women;s events, but that level is actualy far higher than the vast majoirty of women athletes whose levels are around 3mmols. (there is a published study saying this) 10mmols accommodates atletes with XXY or sex development conditions.

So even if a transwoman's testosterone is lowered it still will be higher than the vast majority of their competitors - and then you have the other physiological factors that persist regardless of testosterone.

And with female cyclists, you have the different anatomy in the crucial part of sitting on the seat - genitals and pelvis shape - which is a factor as well.

Pecano

It's far too simplistic to just talk about testosterone. Testosterone doesn't turn men into women. As Waddle says

sorry - testosterone doesn't turn women into men

VO2max - please, what is that?

Why does everyone think mis-gendering (or more accurately bio sexing) and dead-naming is such a big issue for trans activists?

Do you really think they are crying all night about it? Why all the hoo ha?

Wake up. It's a pivotal issue because the sooner it's made socially unacceptable to talk about someone's birth sex all the legitimate concerns about women's rights and protection against male violence are eradicated simply through language being quite literally neutered.

3 women win women's race. Women sexually assaults another woman in a single sex space, woman "woman's award" wins award and claims £££ prize etc and ad nauseam.....

andrew it’s a measure of cardio respiratory fitness and capacity.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max

Basically, the bigger it is the more work you can do. I think the highest ever recorded was one of the cross country skiers (Male.)

Atreides

Woman (Shon Faye) hosts '"Women Making History" event for Amnesty International. Woman who had previously crowed to 'other' women 'enjoy your erasure'

Exactly Grumble. That's the logical conclusion. Every high school in CT can now have a boy's team and a mixed team. Unless the public outcry gets louder.

@TransplantsArePlants

Exactly...and so many other examples - the recent recipient of the Jo Cox award, a woman's officer in the Labour Party....on and on...

Atreides

Yes

And reading what I wrote back, just to be crystal clear for people who are new to this - SF mentioned above is a Transwoman

atreides

Exactly. Men and not-men ffs how did we get here?

Love the username by the way :)

Thank you Bowl - not sure how many people get it though. It does have geek credentials 😂

There is also a link with injury and fluctuating levels of oestrogen and other hormoes within the menstrual cycle news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6354303.stm where hormones loosen the ligaments and increase the risk of injury.

To very quickly paraphrase, the study suggests that taking the combined pill may stop the effects of female hormones affecting the 'softness' of the ligaments which make women more prone to injury at certain times in their menstrual cycles.

Now many elite sports women may be on the pill, or not having periods, but not all, and at lower levels certainly not all women are on the pill because of choice or are prevented for medical reasons.

I do not know the precise levels/ combination of hormones that transwomen may take and it so it may be that the 'disadvantagous' effects of female hormones they are taking, are regulated in a similar way to a woman taking the pill.

With this US high school example, there is no requirement for transwomen/girls to take female hormones at all and so the young female athletes will be at a distinct disadvantage here.

Of course there will be hormonal differences between females, and a woman may choose to take the pill purely for this stabilisng and liagment protecting effect which would not arouse doping suspicions, but not all women can or would want to, and this higher injury risk linked to the menstrual cycle is an example of yet another additional male biological advantage.

Even if you reduce the testosterone of a male to the lowest end of the female range, they keep their male physiology. And their male advantage

Exactly - as evidenced by the fact they keep winning - unless they are coming second to another mft trans athlete...

once trans people start taking hormones wouldbtnit even out the playing field anyway? As in they would lose the natural advantage that testosterone gives them?

Do the people saying this actually know any men?

My dh is not a particularly big man but he is tall. He would be an ENORMOUS woman. I think about all the men I know. I can't think of one who wouldn't make a huge strong woman.

I'm not tiny and I'm fit but I can't think of any who wouldn't be able to hold me down with ease/lift more weight than me/run faster than me.

THIS IS NOT FAIR.

Thank you babel. Sometimes I forget to ask Wiki first.

Harold Macmillan said that no government should take on the Brigade of Guards, the Vatican, or the NUM. For better or worse you can take the NUM off that list, but you can put MN instead. This nonsense can be beaten.

As an aside, I just watched the Triathlon World Series event. The winning man came in around 10 minutes quicker than the winning woman - identical course, identical equipment, identical distances. Which suggests to me that as these are professional athletes who train equally, often together, there is a biological disadvantage for women. I think the best woman would have come in 41st (last) in the men's race going by timings.

This is absurd and it has to be stopped.
I don't understand how they can't see how grossly unfair it is for the girls.

www.gametimect.com/track-field-bloomfield-boys-northwest-catholic-girls-win-class-m-titles-seymour-boys-2nd/

Check out the times for Andraya Yearwood, physically a male who had had no hormone treatment at the time.
Would it be cynical to mention that it looks like AY would have had no chance in the boys' events?

One proposed 'solution' …...a new classification system

We suggest that in able-bodied sport, it would similarly make sense to remove the label of male or female and replace it with categories based on the ability of bodies to move in that particular sport. This is a confronting notion, as we are not used to thinking about sex and gender as based on particular traits.

theconversation.com/why-it-might-be-time-to-eradicate-sex-segregation-in-sports-89305?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twitterbutton

Ridiculous. You may as well give people 'handicaps' like in horse racing - make the bigger people carry weights.

Or maybe Mixed gendered sport teams???

www.lboro.ac.uk/research/spotlights/transgender-in-sport/

They already have mixed gender sports teams.

categories based on the ability of bodies to move in that particular sport.

Surely that’s what races/sporting contests are designed to find out?

Again we are back to ‘well maybe if we...?’ ‘Would you accept if...?’

The answer is no. No to men in women’s sport.