In Connecticut, two teenage boys who identify as girls have come 1st and 2nd in the girls' 100m sprint

[OrchidInTheSun]

twitter.com/GameTimeCT/status/1003739370736816129

Reposted from Feminism Chat as more people need to see this.

Neither Miller nor Yearwood have got times that would be remotely remarkable for boys (200th and 443rd respectively) but they are smashing the girls' records out of the park as now they identify as girls, they're allowed to race them instead.

Watch the face of the girl who comes third. That's pretty much her best ever 100m race. But she didn't win.

Self identification means this kind of thing will keep on happening. If you value women's sport and think that women and girls deserve to compete on a level playing field, please sign the petition: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

categories based on the ability of bodies to move in that particular sport.

I can't do long distance running. Never have been able to do it. Not built for it. I suspect that there are many of us on MN who are similar. So the IOC could introduce a "middle aged person who has never been good at long distance running and gets out of breath after 500 metres" event?

Or maybe the IOC could introduce a handicap system as obviously it's my right to compete against Mo Farah and he will have to wear a fridge on his back to sort of level the playing field, right?

Oh for fucks sake that it is beyond crazy - "next we have the 100 meters for short, wheezy middle-aged people or press the red button for basketball for weak people 5'2" - 5'6"."

a fridge full of beer with another fridge strapped to it in my case.

Those two suggestions were by academics

Do we think a mixed football World Cup might be a real vote winner...?

How are they going to categorise football? Goalkeepers and wingers have very different ideal body types. So which system is going to allow the best female goalkeepers to play at the top level?

And would they all be paid the same?

I don't think there's any need to engage further with CoughLaughFart. It's derailing the thread.

In other words, ignore anyone who doesn’t toe the party line.

Timelady the category that best fits the sport (let's call the elite -men's- category) will attract the big money because ermm elite sport does.

And presumably the elite players would be selected on.... merit??? Or would there have to be a quota system, so, y'know, no-one's feelz are hurt?

My, those sport scientists really seem to have thought this through

Is that Loughborough paper serious?

The more we delved into the issue, the clearer it became that many sporting organisations had overinterpreted the unsubstantiated belief that testosterone leads to an athletic advantage in transgender people, particularly individuals who were assigned male at birth but identify as female.

'unsubstantiated belief'? Then how come people with high testosterone levels (i.e. men) excel in sports over those with naturally low levels (i.e. women). And no mention at all of the skeletal and muscular advantages of being born a male.

And that 'assigned at birth' nonsense again. Sex isn't assigned at birth. It is decided at conception and cannot be changed.

And how come women who have high levels of testosterone through taking drugs get banned from their sport?

how come women who have high levels of testosterone through taking drugs get banned from their sport

Anyone remember Diane Modahl? British middle distance runner who was done for doping, but she successfully argued that her sample had been so badly handled that it gave a false positive. IIRC it was showing something like ten times the allowed level of testosterone. I often wonder how her case would be handled now, given the flim flam around permitted testosterone levels

From the Loughborough article -
There is no research that has directly and consistently found transgender people to have an athletic advantage in sport, so it is difficult to understand why so many current policies continue to discriminate.

There is no research - it hasn't been checked out and documented and peer reviewed.
That doesn't mean it isn't glaringly obvious, from statistics already in existence, that most male-born people have a physical advantage over most female-born people, given the same level of training in a sport.

So the relative sporting prowess of male and female bodied athletes derives from their 'gender identity', not their physiology? Is that the belief that underlies this policy of allowing male bodied individuals to race against women?

Just thinking that it would be more sensible to have 'open gender male bodied and 'open gender female bodied' events. So 'women' who are male bodied, and have the physiological advantages bestowed by male puberty, run against those from whom they appear indistinguishable. And female bodied athletes who identify as male could compete against those from whom they appear indistinguishable...

Otherwise, it just looks like rank opportunism on the part of the male bodied who are declaring a trans status.

What an absolute laugh!
I’m all in favour of someone being trans if that’s how they feel inside, good luck and buckets of acceptance BUT when it comes to a physical competition it’s taking the bloody piss!
If a born male feels that he is female and wishes to identify as such, fine. But let’s not forget that he has a totally different physiology to a born female.
He is naturally stronger and more likely to win in a sports competition.
Everyone should be able to compete on a level playing field.

it is difficult to understand why current policies continue to discriminate against the participation of male-bodied athletes in women's sport?

This cannot be serious?

it is difficult to understand why current policies continue to discriminate against the participation of male-bodied athletes in women's sport

I would suggest that if Loughborough are producing sports science students who find this a difficult concept after studying sports science for three years, then they need to look rather closely at the quality of their degree programs.

There is no research that has directly and consistently found transgender people to have an athletic advantage in sport, so it is difficult to understand why so many current policies continue to discriminate.

So that's were I was going wrong! I just need to think I'm a man, and thenI will be able to outrun Usain Bolt

Where's my spikes?

The author appears to be a psychologist

www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/ssehs/staff/beth-jones/

It says in the OP that the times run by the male-bodied athletes who ran the women's 100m, coming 1st and 2nd would have ranked as 200th and 443rd respectively, on the boys tally.

I await a low-ranking man on the tennis tour discovering his inner woman...

The author appears to be a psychologist

www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/ssehs/staff/beth-jones/

The author has a PhD in transgender health, and appears to have an Adam's apple.

"it is difficult to understand why current policies continue to discriminate against the participation of male-bodied athletes in women's sport"

I've just looked at the men's v women's world records for a random selection of athletics events, running and jumping (other events like throwing are harder to compare as the thing thrown is a different weight for M/F I believe).

All the running events (according to my very rusty maths) are around 10% slower than the men's WRs

100m Men 9.58 seconds Women 10.49 second
Marathon men 2.02.57 Women 2.17.42
1500m Men 3.26 Women 3.50
5,000m Men 12.37.4 Women 14.11.2
400m Men 43.03 Women 47.60

So on average men's records are 10% faster than women's if this isn't proof of advantage what do they think it's proof of? Women being a bit lazy or not really trying?

Long jump men 8.95m women 7.52m
High jump men 2.45m women 2.09
I make that approximately 15% lower for women in the jumping events. So how much advantage there is does vary from event to event but it is clear there is an advantage.

(can I have a sports science degree please?)

This makes me want to cry - so much effort has gone into building up women's and girls participation in sport.... So many are just going to give up as they'll realise they don't have a chance

So many are just going to give up as they'll realise they don't have a chance or that they are likely to get seriously injured, if transwomen are able to participate in contact sports with women

if this isn't proof of advantage what do they think it's proof of? Women being a bit lazy or not really trying?

Obv our fluffy ladybrains stop us being competitive and we get distracted by thoughts of fluffy kittens and sparkly shoes....or something....