To Ask Remainers Their Opinion on Italy?

[A4710Rider]

Post 1 - I don't want this to be too long in one go so Remainers get bored and don't read it.

Italy now stands at both a crossroads and a precipice and the choices made in the next few months will decide whether the next phase of closer EU Integration happens OR there is an end to the European Project. Either way, the EU's coup d'etat in the Italian elections has been a watershed moment.

Because of the increasing problems brought on by economic stagnation and the failure of the Euro to social problems created by the the arrival of hundreds of thousands of migrants over recent years the Italian population has not only become skeptical of the European Union but of politics in general and has voted to take the country in a rightward direction.

Having formed a coalition and garnering over 50% of the vote The League and the 5 Star parties have been blocked from forming a Government after the Italian president vetoed the appointment of a Eurosceptic finance minister.

Sergio Materalla, who was installed as president by a previous pro EU Italian government AND who as head of state is supposed to be politically neutral said in a televised message that "the economy ministry always constitutes an immediate message of trust or alarm for financial markets and as such he could not accept a minister who may provoke Italy's exit from the Euro.

He then, without any apparent introspection, appointed as head of government a European technocrat who not only used to be a director of the IMF but is also well know for his pro EU views.

GardenGeek

Well, a fool and his money are easily parted. As we are about the discover.

Don’t worry. You’re not the first ideolog to jump up on the first bandwagon that passes only to find it leads to penury and humiliation.

Yes, if Brexiting were going so well there would be no need for such goady nonsense from the OP!

Democracy will be pretty useless when society breaks down because we've run out of food/fuel etc.

So in my family we held a vote proposed by one of the dc. The majority voted for a 3 week holiday in the Caribbean at the height of the season. The majority were forceful in their opinion.

However the minority were conscious of the fact that there were outstanding loans to be repaid and monthly outgoings to maintain the education and social welfare of the Family. We simply could not afford a 3 week Caribbean holiday to be taken very quickly without major planning and saving.

All points considered the majority democratic vote was vetoed by the minority figure head of the family.

Economics over democracy, whilst may not be ideal, is sometimes a necessity.

Migration seems to be a massive bone of contention. The EU simply haven't done enough to share the load of migrants arriving from across the seas in Italy (or Greece).

The Eastern European member states that refused to agree to the quota system should have been forced to do so IMO. Any sense of unfairness will always breed dissent.

Democracy will be pretty useless when society breaks down because we've run out of food/fuel etc

Project Fear II

Project Fear II

Indeed. Wasn’t Project Fear I where The Mail and The Telegraph spent decades whipping up fear of the EU and blaming it for all bad government decisions.

Yeah, that one.

No, Project Fear 1 was when David Cameron said Brexit would cause World War III

Hahah, I would rather end up homeless and with no money in a fair and democratic society, than be trapped in an undemocratic, unjust dictatorship any day grin

Prove my point. Your ideology is more important to you than our lives and families. Why should we listen to you? You’re a zealot. Bonkers.

It's pretty weird that you think the UK should only be aspiring to be Greece or China...

Some people have really lost control. No medicine??

UK "Hey, Canada, can we buy some medical supplies until those sulking fuckers in Brussels have come to their senses"

Canada Sure, as your our second biggest trading partner after the USA we'd be happy to help.

"UK* Cheers, mate.

Still waiting on docs/links to prove Italian president is being controlled by Brussels/Berlin

Canada - OK, how are we going to get those medical supplies to you, given that you can't have any air traffic and your ports are all at a stand still?

Still waiting on docs/links to prove Italian president is being controlled by Brussels/Berlin

I already answered the same question by a different post. Please do keep up.

I don’t understand what replies you re looking for @A4710Rider, or what point you’re trying to make, apart from remain voters are wrong.

What do you think about the news that the new Italian government are looking to strengthen links with Russia? How do you think the Italian withdrawal from the euro will help their economic situation? Why is this a good and democratic decision for Italy, given that it was not on their campaign manifesto?

"I dont believe that. Thats what you believe"

Thanks for telling me what I believe. I believe the money behind the Leave campaign has, and continues, to debase democracy in it's attempts to destroy the UK in order to strip it's assets for their own gain.

You seem to be quite content with that...

how are we going to get those medical supplies to you, given that you can't have any air traffic

Canada aren't in the EU.

If you actually think they are going to stop flying between the EU and UK then I'm afraid you're a moron who has fallen for all of the hate propaganda, hook, line and sinker.

Oh dear, A4, you really haven't looked in to this, have you.

I'm not going to bother arguing with someone who doesn't actually understand the facts of the matter. I'll leave you to gloat your way into the abyss (or to whichever Russian bar you go to after work).

Oh dear, A4, you really haven't looked in to this, have you

Another one who snuffles at the trough of hate propaganda, it's like you can't get enough of it. What haven't I looked into?

or to whichever Russian bar you go to after work)

What the actual fuck?

Let me guess, you actually think Brexit means NO ONE can fly into or out of the UK? ....because Ryanair said so?

Moron doesn't even begin to cover it.

The EU is a massive factor

Do you have a link for that please?

See we can all play that game.

rider came onto a brexit thread and started banging on about Italy. When pointed out that this was a derail - and was simply trying to deflect from Brexit, they have come to start their own thread.

Fair enough. But it isn't a thread it good faith. As it quite clearly states 'remainers' in the title, this is till a brexit thread that has nothing to do with brexit. It is an attempt to political point score using an entirely different country and an entirely different set of circumstances. Because brexit is indefensible. They are attempting to make brexit seem like a good idea by pointing to problems in Italy... and that just isn't logical thinking. Two situations can be simultaneously bad, rider

And as a pp has pointed out - riders information is a week out of date. Italy has a govt now. It has been settled.

Many people have responded intelligently in detailed, but seriously don't waste your time. This isn't a thread in good faith, it isn't worth engaging.