to think that Vegans get an unfair amount of hate?

[britchick77]

Having been a carnivore for 37 years, last year I did a vegan month to try and reduce my meat intake – mainly for environmental and animal welfare reasons. My health didn’t come into it (I actually still think it’s slightly healthier for the human body to eat meat). But it felt like the right thing to stick with it, so I have.

I don’t ever bring it up in conversation unless asked, I’ve never tried to convert anyone else, if I go for dinner at someone’s house I’ll eat whatever they cook (including meat). So I don’t consider myself preachy or extreme in any way.

The thing is that I get asked about it All The Time – every time I eat anything in fact. Recently I went out for dinner with a friend, ordered the vegan option, he’d asked me if I was vegan and what the reasons were. He then told me all the reasons why people should eat meat (free range is fine, slaughter is humane, UK has great welfare laws, chicken is better for the environment than soy, meat is healthier for us), and I put forward my counter arguments. It was not an emotional conversation, more of a debate.

He later told a mutual friend (who reported it back to me) that I had become weird and fanatical. As far as I was concerned if anyone was being preachy it was him! He instigated the debate, told me I was wrong and why, then expected me not to argue back when he said something which objective research has shown not to be true?

I don’t get it. Is it the pure fact of being a vegan that is considered extreme? Is it because it makes people feel guilty about their eating habits? Because they think vegans are judging them? Why do people care what I eat, when it doesn’t affect them at all?

Well, he sounds like a shit friend.

I wouldn't bother getting into debates with anyone. Everyone knows what veganism is, and unless they've been living under a rock, they'll have a rough idea of some of the reasons people have for being vegans. You don't need to justify yourself to anyone, especially plonkers.

Yes, I do think it makes people feel judged. Vegans are a bit like tee-totallers at a party.

I think SOME vegans are horrible, they become so obsessed they simply lose perspective. I don't think most people are horrible but the nasty bastards can be very threatening. I don't eat any meat or dairy except venison, I kind of like not being able to join their club and have a foot in both camps 😀

Its just that so many Vegans are preachy nightmares. Plenty aren't, of course, but since you don't hear from them it can leave the impression that the majority of vegans are preachy nightmares.

I find the all or nothing stands many vegans take more problematic to be honest.

So many threads about vegetarians and vegans in the past few days.

YANBU.

As others have said, some vegans are preachy and fanatical which has resulted in people feeling that all vegans are preachy and fanatical.

It’s not right of course and it’s certainly not true.

Your friend sounds gossipy and narrow-minded.

@TheStoic
Even teetotallers don't get so much hate, and I'd say their choice affects other people more (it's more fun getting drunk with other people, but everyone eats different things at a restaurant anyway). And I don't think that drinkers would spend an hour trying to persuade teetotallers to drink?

Maybe so many vegans are preachy nightmares because they get hassle as described above.

(Although I’m a meat eater so I dunno.)

Preachy anyone's are a pain in the butt, and give others a bad name.

Preachy cleanfreaks
Preachy vegans
Preachy religit people (one had the audacity to ask me if I had 'been saved' )

Most vegans are perfectly lovely people with whom I have no issues.

In my experience people who eat meat tend to be the most judgy.

I agree with you OP.
I'm not actually vegan but try to avoid dairy and don't eat much meat. I wrote a fb post recently about how vegan cheese had improved and got quite a few "oh so hilarious' comments anti vegan stuff. Its not real food. Vegans this. It's worse for the environment to be vegan etc etc etc.

It's so cliched tbh. Just give it a fucking rest everyone.

Yes people are ridiculous about it
I'm vegetarian and that's bad enough in terms of constant questioning

Romesh Ranganathan said "the abuse I get for being vegan makes me miss racism" and he wasnt kidding. Ironically I think some people assume I'm veggie for religious reasons.

If anyone asks me about it, I just tell them my eating habits are my business.

It sounds like OP got into a debate about the merits and facts (or otherwise) of veganism so its not just like someone gave her loads of hassle out of the blue.

Vegans who don't talk about being vegan get on fine (I was one for a while, never got any hassle at all). Plenty of vegans just can't see how preachy they are, they call it "just telling the truth" or whatever.

Even teetotallers don't get so much hate, and I'd say their choice affects other people more (it's more fun getting drunk with other people, but everyone eats different things at a restaurant anyway).

Yes, but if you’re going round to someone’s house, they need to make sure they’ve got vegan food/alcohol in. It does affect other people. That’s not to say people shouldn’t be vegan (I’m veggie).

And I don't think that drinkers would spend an hour trying to persuade teetotallers to drink?

Not if you’re an alcoholic but if you’re just teetotal because you want to be, people do find that difficult to understand and try and persuade you to have a drink.

I used to get this all the time just as a vegetarian. Lived in a small and very meaty area. I tried so hard never to bring it up, but anyone who saw I wasn’t eating meat would pounce. “Don’t you care about a carrot’s feelings?” So hilarious the first 50 billion times.

People think you are judging them. You have made a decision to do something positive with your life and therefore they believe that you believe they are lacking in the same moral fibre as you, as though you spend your time caring what they do with their time.

Thing is, a lot of vegans/vegetarians do spend their time obsessing about it and mess it up for the rest of us. One guy I knew said to me, “I’ve never managed to convert a single person to vegetarianism”. How ridiculous to even try, I thought. Plus it would be easier if he didn’t make the whole thing seem so intolerable by talking about nothing else. Sorry for the rant there...

I think that the problems stem from the preachy ones. I have vegan friends who have never commented once on me eating meat etc but I have had one friend of a friend when finding out I grew up on a farm ask me how I felt that my family "were murderers" she is obviously a minority and probably just an arsehole but i could understand if she was the only vegan you had ever met you might hate them.
Like anything a small minority can ruin it for a majority.

@MiggeldyHiggins
I guess I've just never met a vegan yet who really forces their views.

When I stopped eating meat I told myself that I'd never talk about it because I didn't want to be one of those. But the fact is that everyone asks you about it all the time, and you end up getting drawn into a debate even when you don't want to be. I find it hard not to when someone says something I disagree with (on any topic!) but maybe I need to learn to let it go, because arguing back never changes anything anyway.

I don’t hate vegans but I hate it when they try to ‘convert’ me. That’s when I start pointing out why I’m not a vegan. Otherwise I’m happy to cater for them and mind my own business if they mind theirs

I used to just not have the conversation, change the subject instead.

Yeh it’s nuts. I was vegan for years but am not anymore, though still mostly vegan and don’t eat meat. People get really angry about it for some reason. I think a lot of the time they feel they have defend their meat eating, even when no one has asked them to. There are a rather large amount of hypocrisy hoops most people have to jump through to justify eating meat in a modern western society though.

Find Vegan Sidekick on instagram, he does a very good job of satirising all the mad arguments non-vegans have with vegans.

Yes, I do think it makes people feel judged. Vegans are a bit like tee-totallers at a party

Oh shit. I'm vegan and teetotal.

Haha he sounds like a delight. To be very, very clear:

1. Free range is NOT fine. The bar is set very low for free range produce, and much of the lives of the animals is still spent in the same conditions as battery/mass farmed animals. It also has no bearing on how their lives are ended.
2. Slaughter is not humane, in any slaughterhouses. At best, imagine queuing up to die and watching every single one of the animals you have spent your short life with being killed in front of you. At worst, there are many instances of animals being beaten, stabbed and tortured by the people who work in the abattoirs before they are killed. It has been captured on film and reported frequently by whistleblowers. The methods used do not guarantee an instant death, the suffering can be prolonged.
3. We will be leaving the EU. The situation will only get worse, not better, when we start importing more meat from non eu countries.

The above is not me preaching. It's factual information. I would never randomly bring it up during dinner with friends and it's actually very rare that a vegan would ever set out intentionally to make someone feel bad about their choices, however the majority of the public are uneducated about where their food comes from. If you accept the above is true and still choose to eat meat that is entirely your decision and most vegans would never choose to alienate someone over it. But I think perhaps vegans come across as fanatical simply because the issue is SUCH a bloody important one. The media including the BBC are required to big up the meat and dairy farming industries so the reality is that the darker side of meat production is kept from the public or played down. We are told these "naice" stories about how that RSPCA certified sticker on your meat must mean the animal lived a happy life entirely outdoors, basking in the grass and the mud and that it's life was ended humanely without distress, pain or suffering. It's just not true.

Most of the people I love most in the world still eat meat. I don't think any less of them and they are wonderful, kind people. Bu privately it does make me sad.

And YNBU - meat eaters are the most preachy of the lot. I can rarely eat out in peace without someone starting a conversation about whatever vegan dish I have ordered and then trying to provoke me into an debate about why they are justified in eating meat.

I understood that OP hadn't talked about but heard back that someone talked about her?

I never talk about it, people try to question me endlessly.

The only vegan I know who causes me ... let's say negative feelings? about her diet is a relative, and I think it's mostly because she seems to use an ideology to justify an ongoing eating disorder. I suppose as a bulimic trying to be in recovery I find it triggering, for a lack of a better word.

Her isn't aren't to do with veganism itself, though. If she ate a healthy vegan diet, that would be fine. Limiting yourself to one meal a day (when you're already underweight and have a long history with ED) and being completely obsessive about every ingredient is much less fine. She's not only vegan, but also very concerned where exactly every ingredient comes from and how ethically it has been produced. That again isn't a bad principle, but when you label a large amount of vegan foods as unethical for one reason or another, it does become a problem.

Sorry, missing the point of the thread a bit. She's been on my mind and I'm worried.