to think that Vegans get an unfair amount of hate?

[britchick77]

Having been a carnivore for 37 years, last year I did a vegan month to try and reduce my meat intake – mainly for environmental and animal welfare reasons. My health didn’t come into it (I actually still think it’s slightly healthier for the human body to eat meat). But it felt like the right thing to stick with it, so I have.

I don’t ever bring it up in conversation unless asked, I’ve never tried to convert anyone else, if I go for dinner at someone’s house I’ll eat whatever they cook (including meat). So I don’t consider myself preachy or extreme in any way.

The thing is that I get asked about it All The Time – every time I eat anything in fact. Recently I went out for dinner with a friend, ordered the vegan option, he’d asked me if I was vegan and what the reasons were. He then told me all the reasons why people should eat meat (free range is fine, slaughter is humane, UK has great welfare laws, chicken is better for the environment than soy, meat is healthier for us), and I put forward my counter arguments. It was not an emotional conversation, more of a debate.

He later told a mutual friend (who reported it back to me) that I had become weird and fanatical. As far as I was concerned if anyone was being preachy it was him! He instigated the debate, told me I was wrong and why, then expected me not to argue back when he said something which objective research has shown not to be true?

I don’t get it. Is it the pure fact of being a vegan that is considered extreme? Is it because it makes people feel guilty about their eating habits? Because they think vegans are judging them? Why do people care what I eat, when it doesn’t affect them at all?

I’ve been vegan for a long time and am used to the judgements and what aboutery. Its draining and I say I’m not telling YOU to be vegan, you eat meat that’s your choice, and this is mine. I’ve also met some vegans who make me embarrassed to be a vegan...those that are influenced too much by PETA/black and white thinking. That you have to be 100% vegan when actually if most people just reduced their reliance on animal products this would make a massive difference to their health and the environment.

But your mate is being a knob. He’s the ‘fanatical’ meat eater!

I’m just like you OP, I don’t eat dairy or meat any more, but I do eat eggs because we have our own chickens and if we run out we get them from a neighbour. However, given that I’m loathe to get into a discussion with people about my dietary choices (for all the reasons already stated!) I call myself vegan, but confess to eating eggs. I feel like ‘well I don’t eat meat or dairy and I have IBS so I’m also low FODMAP and yes it is tricky to easily feed my family of me plus a veggie 9 year old and three carnivores’ is kind of a conversation killer.

Reassuring to see the huge study that was published in the ‘science’ journal this week about a vegan diet being the single best thing we could all do to help our environment, and I hope it filters through the media and everybody becomes aware of it.

Maybe plant based is the word you're looking for OP?

Vegan is a lifestyle not just dietary choices and within that we're a pretty empathetic group. I think you'll find many (not all obviously) are concerned with the plight of humans suffering around the world just like many meat eaters are. Its kind of frustrating when people get into a competition about who is the most ethical. We're not in The Good Place, there isnt some kind of universal points system.

I think just do what you can; I support anybody who tries anything to have less of an impact on the environment as thats my motivation so if somebody moves from cheap intensively farmed meat to more expensive locally reared higher welfare then I'm behind them, 100%. Though I will try and show anyone veganism doesnt mean losing out by making them cakes and sharing recipes for meatless Mondays on social media.

@treezylover

Reassuring to see the huge study that was published in the ‘science’ journal this week about a vegan diet being the single best thing we could all do to help our environment, and I hope it filters through the media and everybody becomes aware of it.

I am sure it is the single best thing we can do for the environment, but it's not the single best thing we can do for our health.

A vegan diet can be extremely dangerous, if it isn't followed correctly, and many people do NOT follow it correctly at ALL. And it is a form of child abuse to force it on your children. You can be prosecuted in some countries for doing it.

@treezylover

And what HUGE STUDY are you on about anyway?!

Probably done by plant-based pious irritants!

Ive got s few vegan friends - none have ever even brought it up and one of them has never even mentioned it even in PassIng like 'can I make sure there's something vegan to eat' she just gets in with it and has a box of snacks to hand or fruit.
She started eating fish when difficult TTC but again never made a thing about it just got on with it

If I met preachy vegans, carnivores, Christians, religious preaching in any way, or anything else where people are desperate to 'prove you wrong' I quickly lose interest in the conversation / friendship if it continues!

UserV

Same could be said about omnivorous diets. Look at the rates of childhood obesity in this country.

You get healthy and unhealthy vegans just like you get healthy and unhealthy omnis.

I agree with PPs it's the preaching, judging and holier than thou attitude of SOME vegans.
The ones that liken it to a dietary necessity like gluten free or real life threatening allergies. My arse.

It turns previously lovely people into monsters.

It's a lifestyle choice more often than not so please stop talking about it. FFS.

Yeah but @Slowwaking , meat-eaters don't ramble on about their eating habits, force their views on everyone, constantly rant on about how they love to eat meat, post about it online (every fucking day,) and bore the living shit out of everyone.

I only know one vegan and she’s never preachy. She also cooks amazing food.

I think meat eaters feel judged because of their own guilt. It may be entirely natural to eat meat but it’s still eating another sentient being.

This is the study Treezt referred to UserV. It’s the original so the conclusions are stated soberly and without tabloid headlines, but they’re pretty clear, and in line with all similar previous research.

It’s doesn’t necessarily apply to the odd backyard chicken fed exclusively on worms and scraps, or exclusively grass fed sheep grazed on land unfit for crops, but for the vast majority of meat and dairy eaten by the vast majority of people it holds good.

(People who say “if a vegan is eating avocados flown in from Peru and I’m eating eggs from my own back garden chicken then they’re totally worse than me” are the equivalent of “I know a super-fit rugby player with a BMI of 29 so BMI is bollocks”)

Ah yes, probably 🙄

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/veganism-environmental-impact-planet-reduced-plant-based-diet-humans-study-a8378631.html

If someone asks me if I'm vegan I usually say "yes, 99% of the time", and leave it at that unless they press me for more info.

There’s no such thing as being vegan 99% of the time. It’s not how often you eat meat, it’s the fact you eat it at all.

I don’t know why you even started a thread about being vegan if you aren’t one.

Thanks for posting the original study, I only found news articles on a quick search.

That article is interesting. I am not vegan, but I drink almond milk because I have a cough for months if I have dairy. I was worried about the water being used to produce litres of almond milk. Also apparently avocado production is causing drought in south America. I wonder if all that is true?

I agree. You aren't vegan. I'm vegetarian and I don't eat meat, end of.

Also apparently avocado production is causing drought in south America. I wonder if all that is true? Every type of agriculture has a cost for the environment. How could it be otherwise.

Almond production does use a lot of water- soya and oat use less. Almond milk is nutritionally pretty poor too.
Increased avocado production is causing issues in South America but this is not due to vegans. Vegans do not live on avocados, and they are not an essential part of the vegan diet. Meat eaters/vegetarians tend to eat avocados too.

Once you’ve seen the horror of the meat and dairy industry you can’t ignore it. It’s frustrating and dissapointing that nice people who would usually be against any form of cruelty think it’s ok to eat animals. It’s hard not to try and educate people because a lot of it is ignorance, or cognitive dissonance. It’s easier for people to believe death is humane and to project their guilt on to veggies / vegans.

All the vegans I know personally are lovely and very pragmatic. On line there are some really off putting militant vegans. They don’t do any favours to either vegans or animals because their approaches causes people to defend the indefensible . I say I’m ‘plant based’ rather than vegan because of the reasons already mentioned and the reaction it gets.

Soya production is a major cause of rainforest destruction too.

Really interesting article, Treezylover. I will read the full study later.

@CoteNoir - Most of the people I love most in the world still eat meat. I don't think any less of them and they are wonderful, kind people. But privately it does make me sad.

I think it was a bit unfair of PPs to criticise you for saying you privately feel sad - it's a totally natural reaction when you feel strongly about something and hardly the same as telling people what they should do/eat. TBH I wouldn't believe anyone who had themselves cut out meat/dairy for ethical/environmental reasons but said they didn't care whether other people did or not. Why would you not want other people to do something that you thought was going to have a positive impact on the environment/welfare of animals?

It's funny that the reductionist approach - whether it's 99% plant-based or 50% or 25% - seems to be unpopular amongst a lot of vegans and omnivores, but personally I applaud it. After all it's true that 'if everyone ate half as much meat, the impact would be the same as half of us being vegetarian'. The former is way more achievable in my view and encouraging that would have a much bigger impact.

MissMarplesKnitting

The vast majority of soya is grown for feeding livestock. Deforestation is one of the main motivators for environmentally concious vegans. If everyone went vegan, we'd need much less soy than we currently use.

For me, part of the problem with British vegans is the definition of British veganism. The British vegan society says you only qualify as vegan if you eat like that for animal welfare reasons (excluding animal products from your diet for other reasons means you are eating a plant-based diet, or other nonsense, but you are NOT VEGAN). So right away it's an exclusive, moral highground club. This blinkered definition kicks the door open to being a snot about it.

I know many people in USA who call themselves vegan; yet they do not eat like that for animal welfare reasons. They are completely mellow & unobtrusive about their diet. They aren't claiming any moral highground b/c of how they eat.

But the British vegans do. And that is annoying.

ps: I was a vegetarian who ate fish about 35 years ago... the word pescatarian hadn't been invented yet. I still hear about this type of vegetarian today (people over 60). Look here on this thread, people condemning someone who calls themselves vegetarian not pescatarian. For us old farts, we haven't caught up with your logic. Nor will we bother, I suspect.