to think that Vegans get an unfair amount of hate?

[britchick77]

Having been a carnivore for 37 years, last year I did a vegan month to try and reduce my meat intake – mainly for environmental and animal welfare reasons. My health didn’t come into it (I actually still think it’s slightly healthier for the human body to eat meat). But it felt like the right thing to stick with it, so I have.

I don’t ever bring it up in conversation unless asked, I’ve never tried to convert anyone else, if I go for dinner at someone’s house I’ll eat whatever they cook (including meat). So I don’t consider myself preachy or extreme in any way.

The thing is that I get asked about it All The Time – every time I eat anything in fact. Recently I went out for dinner with a friend, ordered the vegan option, he’d asked me if I was vegan and what the reasons were. He then told me all the reasons why people should eat meat (free range is fine, slaughter is humane, UK has great welfare laws, chicken is better for the environment than soy, meat is healthier for us), and I put forward my counter arguments. It was not an emotional conversation, more of a debate.

He later told a mutual friend (who reported it back to me) that I had become weird and fanatical. As far as I was concerned if anyone was being preachy it was him! He instigated the debate, told me I was wrong and why, then expected me not to argue back when he said something which objective research has shown not to be true?

I don’t get it. Is it the pure fact of being a vegan that is considered extreme? Is it because it makes people feel guilty about their eating habits? Because they think vegans are judging them? Why do people care what I eat, when it doesn’t affect them at all?

Should add - I never brought it up first, ever, but people seemed to be desperate to argue about it.

*Her ISSUES aren't to do with veganism ^

I need a fulltime proof reader...

I would just keep quiet OP even when asked, some people are militant meat eaters!
You sound like the perfect vegan. Get on with it quietly eithout preaching or affecting anyone else.
Other vegans and their judgyness have ruined it for you!

I have never met any of these judgy vegans in real life. The stereotype seems to stick but I don’t see it in practice. If anything it’s the non-vegans who are judgy.

I've never met a judgey vegan but I've met plenty of judgey meat eaters.

I'm not on Facebook though, never sure how much of the judgey accusations come from real life or social media.

@LighthouseSouth - yup the conversation was reported back to a mutual friend (probably not in a malicious way as it sounds) I was just so surprised that his takeaway from it was that I was extreme, even though he so clearly led the conversation down that path.

CoteNoir

If no one asks for your facts then IMO its preaching.

Most of the people I love most in the world still eat meat. I don't think any less of them and they are wonderful, kind people. Bu privately it does make me sad.
And it’s this attitude that pisses people off I’m afraid. It’s like the Christians that cant help but pray for poor old atheist me.

That's exactly the issue.

"Have you been saved?"

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Oh shit. I'm vegan and teetotal.

Well, I'm vegan and teetotal (at the moment because ttc) and a cyclist. Our friends and families must be saints to put up with us!

Even teetotallers don't get so much hate, and I'd say their choice affects other people more (it's more fun getting drunk with other people, but everyone eats different things at a restaurant anyway). And I don't think that drinkers would spend an hour trying to persuade teetotallers to drink?

Spend 5 minutes on any forum or social media page for people trying to quit alcohol and you’ll realise that everything you’ve said here is wrong.

But if you aren't judgy about anyone elses choices then you will be loved and welcome.

My vegan family bring bits of food and I try to cater as much ask can. I don't judge them, they don't preach to me.

Besides which, I once pulled one up on bring preachy by pointing out the hypocrisy of saving animals but wearing sweat shop produced primark clothing. No comments since....

Some people are just assholes whether they be eat meaters or not.

I eat some vegan food because I'm breastfeeding my daughter who has CMPA and other food allergies. My in laws often ask me what I'm eating 'that crap' for, and 'you need to get some dairy in you'. I'm not even vegan and it annoys me, it's no one elses business what you choose to eat.

Likewise at a friend's wedding recently and I was sat next to someone who announced themselves as an ecowarrier when introducing herself. All was fine until the food with special requirements came out. Waiter explained for the first course that both our meals were vegan, all was fine. Second course came out and I had the non vegan option because the dish was suitable for all allergies. This utter twat who I had met about 30 minutes before hand then went on a tirade of how dare I eat one vegan dish and then go on to eat meat straight after, and that it's people like me that give vegans a bad name and am destroying the environment. She didn't even apologise when I explained about my DD allergies. Although she soon shut up and fucked off when I pointed out the wine provided on the table that she had been drinking contained dairy

You see OP! You have now met a vegan who preaches about it... but says they are just informing us of the reasons our own choices are so wrong!

I am a low meat eater, have veggie and vegan days, weeks, months. I never say I am vegan, I never say anything other than that particular dish sounded nice! Just as I do when I choose a meat option.

And the vegan 1,2,3 is a bit flawed, but I doubt anything I, as a meat eating murderer's accomplice, could say would persuade Cote of that.

But I know where all of my meat comes from. I often eat an animal I could name, recognise in the field, may even have fed. Our local butcher can name the field/barn they were raised in, introduce you to the farmer and his family etc. And all of them have very high animal welfare standards. Coming out of the EU won't change any of that.

And this area is not unusual. Just about everywhere in the UK, including London, has a network of local producers who have great standards and ethics. Yes, the meat can be more expensive, but not always. We have found that only chicken is noticeably more money - not that I would willingly eat a £3 chicken anyway, if I had a choice.

As a meat eater who knows full well that my choices are ethically dodgy I do notice a load of carnivores, especially online, who are absolute cocks about it, and justify their own behaviour with tales of preachy vegans, weedy vegetarians and over watered almond plantations.

If anyone points out the incredibly well evidenced environmental impact of red meat and dairy farming then they’ll argue all day and night that “actually it’s the vegans with their quinoa/avocados/soya who are destroying the planet” in flagrant disregard of the facts.

Maybe the reason you get “hate” is because you call yourself a vegan but you posted this:

if I go for dinner at someone’s house I’ll eat whatever they cook (including meat).

So you’re not a vegan, you just call yourself one.

People don't like it being pointed out that it IS possible to give up the things they know are unhealthy e.g. meat, drink, smoking or do exercise, be a healthy weight etc. So they try to sabotage.

I say this as a meat eating, alcohol drinking, no exercise taking fatty.

I try to be impressed by people with more self control than me instead.

Slightlyperturbedowlagai can you explain how the two are even remotely the same?

I don't eat meat for ethical reasons. Consequently the idea of humans eating meat makes me, privately, a little sad. I'm not sure I understand how sharing that on a thread which is specifically discussing veganism is the equivalent of me somehow virtuously praying for all the meat eaters to be saved? The death of a living creature is a sad thing in my eyes. You are welcome to disagree, but I won't have it implied that I am somehow virtue signalling when IRL I don't ever discuss veganism as a topic of conversation yet I have to tolerate being bombarded, daily, by meat eaters who wish to make me feel like some kind of preachy goody two shoes.

I have a problem with the vegans who dont see their principles through.
The ones who take a break from it when on holiday because they're somwqhere very meat or dairy focussed.
The ones who have cats or dogs (thus supporting the very worst end of the meat industry).

A principle isnt a principle when you only abide by it when its easy or works to your natural preference.

Your 'friend' is a twat and should butt the hell out. Why is what you eat anything to do with him FFS? It's your body, your choice and you're not asking for his approval so he should keep his stupid opinions to himself.

My DB has been vegan for over 10 years and he gets all kinds of shit for it, yet he never and I mean NEVER brings it up in conversation. He just eats what he eats and gets on with life. He's not evangelical about it or a martyr - he literally never says a word and he certainly doesn't preach to anyone.

Most of my friends are vegetarian. They never preach about my meat eating ways ( and even provided meat at s birthday party they had) My childhood friend was vegan. I went to vegan restaurants with her ( very rare 10 years ago and not that nice) but she became extremely preachy eventually culling all her friends ( including me) who ate meat. To be fair, I think both of us realised our friendship was running its course anyway so it could have been an excuse

My SIL the same.
Catering for everyone is a bit interesting but everyone seems to like a tofu Thai green curry so that's my go to get together vegan friendly dish! She never says a thing, and I hate for her to feel singled out so we all have the vegan meal.

It is also a blindingly hypocritical that meat eaters are permitted to talk endlessly about their reasons for justifying eating meat, but if a vegan does dare to join in a conversation and explain why they feel those reasons aren't sound, they are immediately accused of being sanctimonious. There is clearly a double standard between those who eat meat and are permitted to voice their opinion in whichever way they please, and vegans who will only be tolerated provided they remain silent on the issue.

Honestly- and I'm aware that this will not be well received- I think people's consciences are pricked and they attack and belittle vegans to get past that. I'm not vegan, I eat eggs and dairy. I know damn well that the dairy industry does immense harm and that by continuing to consume dairy products, I am part of that. It's not a nice feeling. I think a lot of people can't cope with knowing that they are part of a horrible system and to try and
avoid the reality of that, attack those who have take themselves out of it. It's deflection.

I have a problem with the vegans who don't see their principles through

This is interesting, because those who do see their principles through tend to be the ones who get the most hate (e.g. people who avoid trace ingredients of animal products). Even the CEO of PETA says that vegans should eat trace ingredients because not doing so makes veganism look hard, vegans look extreme, and makes people less likely to adopt a vegan diet.

My guiding principle is that I want to reduce environmental impact and cause fewer animals to suffer. I accept that the only way to have zero impact is to kill myself today and not have any kids. But I think there's a middle ground between that and eating meat 3 times a day.