Well, it’s happened... the trans activists have waded into the 8th amendment issue in Ireland

[AngeloMysterioso]

And are apparently pushing for the language in the repeal legislation to be “gender neutral”.

Quote from the article-

“Despite what some may believe, men can become pregnant too. There are tens of thousands of transgender men and non-binary people in Ireland who can conceive, and when speaking about reproductive healthcare, we must always be mindful of that.

“It’s imperative that newly written legislation uses inclusive language. By including this, trans men and non binary people will not hit legal barriers should they need to receive an abortion. By using the term pregnant people in new legislation, as well as protecting women, we are also protecting and respecting all gender identities should a crisis pregnancy occur.”

So. That’s nice. Thousands upon thousands of women have suffered, many have died, because of bullshit like the 8th amendment. And after fighting so hard for so fucking long and finally winning the right to bodily autonomy and reproductive rights, if the TAs get their way, we get to be referred to as pregnant people

I’m a bit of a TERF at the best of times but this is beyond fucking insulting. Savita Halappanavar wasn’t a pregnant person. Michelle Harte wasn’t a pregnant person. Sheila Hodges wasn’t a pregnant person.

If the TDs capitulate and let this happen I will be really pissed off.

Are you suggesting that men as a whole have a TRA agenda? They would be bemused

Is this thread about men as a whole? No. Its about TRA's trying to subvert the legislation in Ireland. Do keep up.

Oh also want to add that in "ten years" (cough, unlikely, cough) when natal males "can get pregnant", I'd put money on them wanting the term "woman" put back into all of the legislation.

Is this thread about men as a whole?

I commented on your specific sentence.

Im a cisgender pregnant person.. . How very woke. 🙄

If only Miss Jolly were here. How does it go?: now bugger off and good day to you.

I commented on your specific sentence

yes, which was to bring the topic back to the actual point of the thread.

You need to explain that further. How is "equal rights and opportunities" prioritising individual actions and choices? How is it not also about the system?

It's better to be specific if that's what you meant. It's not what all people who talk about feminism being about "equal rights" mean. Liberal feminism is about working within the structures which exist and trying to change the laws and policies. Not addressing the root causes of sex based oppression. This is a derail. Feel free to start another thread.

Grandmaswagbag
You’re not on twitter or social media? You’re wading into this debate and you don’t have a bloody clue then. 🙄 I think you need to educate yourself a little further because right now you’re coming across as a handmaiden or a tra.

@Grandmaswagbag well I am assuring you that the demands are only going in one direction. Others who have witnessed and been part of this debate can assure you of the same thing. And you need to think about why that is happening. This is men demanding things of women, that they budge over, make way, shut up. Not the other way round. Think about it.

Oh also want to add that in "ten years" (cough, unlikely, cough) when natal males "can get pregnant", I'd put money on them wanting the term "woman" put back into all of the legislation

This. With bells on. References to anything other than "pregnant women" would result in epic tantrums.

Because calling strictly a woman's issue takes men out of the equation

yes, that would be good. Then we wouldn't even be having this conversation

Would it? The men who also vote for or against abortion laws? The men who still have greater power in society? Do you want to enlist men, or alienate them?

Right now I want them to fuck off trying to muscle into the work women have been doing for 50 years and use it for their own TRA agenda.

Are you suggesting that men as a whole have a TRA agenda? They would be bemused.

Is this thread about men as a whole? No. Its about TRA's trying to subvert the legislation in Ireland. Do keep up.

I commented on your specific sentence.

yes, which was to bring the topic back to the actual point of the thread.

So, the actual point of the thread is not whether "pregnant people" is an appropriate wording for this law, but about TRAs. Is that so?

And can you explain how talking about how men are intruding in female spaces relates to this thread about women who want to be considered as men (and yet may get pregnant)?

The point of this thread sailed several times already. But, by all means, divert and shut down any attempt of reasonable discussion that includes women's vs human rights issues in the context of using the wording "pregnant people".

As soon as the person uses the term 'cis' it's clear that they are a virtual signalling perfomatively woke handmaiden.

Clarification: when they use the term 'cis' to describe themselves or others.

As soon as the person uses the term 'cis' it's clear that they are a virtual signalling perfomatively woke handmaiden.

As @LaSqrrl called it "compliant individual signalling". I think that's brilliant.

Transadvocates are trying to erase our existence. Our existence is not up for debate.

So, the actual point of the thread is not whether "pregnant people" is an appropriate wording for this law, but about TRAs. Is that so?

Yes of course it is. Do you really think we'd be having this conversation if TRAs didn't have the power they do?

I'm still waiting for someone to answer my question about the one-sidedness of the demands. Women are getting it from BOTH male TRAs and their acolytes, and female-born transmen - demands that we de-gender the language around women's bodies, healthcare and reproduction. Lefty woke men are loving this, jumping in with both feet and calling women "terfs" with great gusto.

In contrast, NO demands are being placed on men.

Why?

We know why. If only everyone else could see it....

This is what they want. Complete capitulation, or it will 'go the way of Michfest'. They are prepared to see rape centres fold 'into obscurity' rather than accept that there are some places where male bodied people don't belong.

If are concerned about ensuring Transmen get adequate care, then write it specifically into legislation. But don't trash the rights of the rest of us for a few pregnant females who choose to present as men

A handmaiden 😂😂😂 a TRA because I support a sentiment that ensures all born females can have access to abortion. I couldn’t give a shit how the law is worded as long as it achieves this. It’s for the people who write the law to decide how best to word it. I have no idea why people spend so much time hurling insults to each other over Twitter, I’m certainly not going to ‘educate’ myself by reading that crap.

And can you explain how talking about how men are intruding in female spaces relates to this thread about women who want to be considered as men (and yet may get pregnant)?

Do we have to spell it out? Again? It's the same TRA's on both instances. Who do you think is pushing the self IDs? Who do you think is pushing to remove all women only spaces? Who do you think is pushing to change the language of this legislation?
It's the same people, working very hard to remove rights from women.

Other people give a shit about our existence grandma. Obviously you think it's hilarious to erase women

As @LaSqrrl called it "compliant individual signalling". I think that's brilliant.

Good point. Kudos to LaSqrrl.

@Grandmaswagbag you never answered my question and I'm glad you think it's all hilarious. For someone who doesn't bother with social media, you've certainly spent enough time on here with your gleeful ignorance of what's going on.

Grandmaswagbag
Fine laugh at my comment all you like. It was kindly meant. You’re coming across as the fool, not me. Or rather a Handmaiden by ignorance.

I have no idea why people spend so much time hurling insults to each other over Twitter, I’m certainly not going to ‘educate’ myself by reading that crap.

You ought to educate yourself about how a male transactivist pursued a rape shelter through every court in Canada for 12 years because they wouldn't let the TRA work as a rape counsellor with their female clients. In the only shelter in Vancouver that has that rule.

You ought to educate yourself about how the TRA ultimately lost that case after nearly bankrupting the shelter, but how transactivists don't like losing so much that they have succeeded in practically getting the shelter stripped of all funding, and target anyone who supports their fundraising initiatives.

You ought to educate yourself about how the owner of a small artisan sweet shop which merely put up a fundraiser poster in the window was targeted with angry abuse and threats and her business was subjected to a harassment campaign.