To think my friend just needs to say no to her kids?

[reddblackandblue]

I have been very close to my friend for years. She is genuinely a lovely, lovely person. Too lovely.

She’s always been very into ‘gentle’ parenting but ever since her eldest turned two, she has had these screaming tantrums that last half an hour or more and no one can do anything during this period except sit and wait for the child to exhaust herself into sleep.

Obviously, I thought this was normal so waited it out. Child turned three, four and five and still has tantrums and screams when she doesn’t get her own way. The younger child who isn’t now three is exactly the same.

I think my friend just can’t say ‘no.’ Even when something is obviously impractical or dangerous she will sit around for ages reasoning with them rather than saying no. This has meant us all standing by a busy road while the children scream, standing outside the car waiting to get in as the kids won’t get in their car seats, waiting around exhausted at midnight as the kids rampage around.

Now she’s expecting another.

Aibu in just not wanting to be around her any more? I absolutely love her. The kids? I can’t stand them!

Its not about what personality they are born with, its about whether the parent actually deals with the child properly.
She'd get sympathy if she was dealing with a strong personality, but she isn't dealing with them at all.

Oh dear. I have a friend like this.

When her child has a major tantrum and is screaming in my friends face and punching her, friends response is to cuddle child and say "mummy loves you very very much". Child is nearly 7

My DD sometimes tries to copy some of the behaviour. I'm not having that. Sadly, it may well mean I will have to end the friendship

YANBU. All this softly softly. There there poppit. You can have and behave as ypu like. The world is a fairy tale where people will puddys foot around you. It's get right on my already very intolerant last nerve.

Is she a friend of yours too then, miggeldy?

I can read the OP, maybe you could do the same?

I really don’t think there’s enough information there to conclude this woman is not dealing with her children at all. For all you (or the OP) know, she might be totally different at home, have tried every trick in the book, and is trying to talk calmly to them when out with OP because she doesn’t want someone starting a MN thread about how she punishes her child constantly or yells at them or whatever else. To say he child doesn’t have a strong personality and she’s just a bad parent isn’t really fair given the little we know.

Iwasjustabouttosaythat. Its not rocket science. If a child gets what they want all the time they will behave like an entitled brat and that includes tantrums and behaving badly.

A child with a strong personality does not behave like a brat if they are parented properly. You are basically saying that children who behave themselves have weak personalities. Not true at all. They have just been parented and taught certain behaviour is not acceptable.

I know someone who parented like this.

Children are now adults. It's not pretty, put it that way.

Its not about what personality they are born with, its about whether the parent actually deals with the child properly

Miggledy. I do disagree. Different personalities and different levels of understanding in children count for a lot. You can’t just apply one rule fits all. I have made ALL my parenting mistakes ( many) by trying to apply some sort of philosophy which I interpreted as “ proper parenting”. Usually from the last book I read as I desperately searched for a solution to the latest phases problems.

The issue I see with the OPs friend is, she is not being flexible enough to change when faced with the fact it’s not working. Who knows though? Maybe as her kids mature they will respond to her gentle ways. I wouldn’t have had the patience.

How would you deal with a tantrum?

Hmm not sure tbh. In your op you say that they do nothing other than wait it out which would be spot on imo but then later you say the tantrums are given into but the children continue tantrumming lon after. That doesn’t sound like a kid tantrumming to get what they want imo as kids doing that tend to calm pretty quickly when they’ve achieved what they want.
Obviously yanbu to not want to spend time around kids you find hard work but yanbu to say that your way of dealing with the children would be any more successful. The children could quite possibly have some kind of additional needs. Like I said it’s pretty unusual for a child who wants their own way to continue tamtrumming for a long time after they’ve got what they want.

The issue I see with the OPs friend is, she is not being flexible enough to change when faced with the fact it’s not working.

And that is an important point. Gentle parenting or reasoning isn't always the answer. Sometimes you simply have to act and explain why you are acting. So instead of waiting for DC to decide they want to get in the car put them in it and say We have to go somewhere we have to be there and we have not got time to wait for you to decide when you want to get in the car. If they scream ignore it.

What this sort of parent doesn't realise is that by "reasoning" with a toddler, you are actually rewarding the undesirable behaviour, by giving the child your undivided attention and focus - something most children value greatly. It's completely counter-productive, and highly likely to result in increasing the bad behaviour.

I gave up on one lovely woman as her DS used to whinge and whine and was constantly interrupting us and she would just stop mid sentence to pander to his whinging. It was exhausting being with her

I know someone that does this

Not a close friend fortunately so don't often see them but when I do I always end up frustrated at the asking....not telling. Asking. For things like car seats, bedtimes, injury treatment. FFS some things are the parents' decisions.....because they're not THREE years old and can make those decisions properly.

I'm all for a bit of "do you want beans on toast or cheese on toast" but seriously, you TELL a child that they're going to bed/having their bloody knee washed/getting in the car seat. And then everyone else has to deal with tantrums or wait for the reasoning to work, which can take frigging ages (bitter experience).

Probably should have said no to her husband as well, just quietly....

kesstrel
I agree you can’t reason with a tantruming toddler. Best to leave them to settle and then have a big hug at the end. At most acknowledge their upset with “you want x, I know you want x and you’re sad because you can’t have x”.

Idk what you can do unless you want to tell your friend. The way I see it, you have nothing to loose because you’re thinking about reducing/ stopping contact anyway. At least by being kind but honest, you may have a chance of saving the friendship. What about getting her a self help book? “It looks as if you’re going through a really hard time, I find this book really useful. It gives tips on handling x, y, and z issues.” She may even open up.

How do parents that do reasoning manage if for example child wants to poke something into electric socket? Obviously they have to stop them but do they sit there with their hand over the socket saying please don't do that or do they actually remove child and poking object?

I have the Veruca Salt song in my head...

tempted to say that you should tell her that she is training horrendous brats and you are just the first of many who will be avoiding them.

I do disagree. Different personalities and different levels of understanding in children count for a lot. You can’t just apply one rule fits all.

Disagree all you like, but whatever your childs personality, you still have to parent them and actually deal with them. Standing back and letting them scream for half an hour in company or in public says something about your personality, not theirs, and your lack of respect for everyone else around you. And ultimately, your child, because you are just sitting there doing nothing.

How would you deal with a tantrum?

Ideally. If at home I would have ignored it. If out removed them from situation. Always ready to offer a cuddle after though cos they exhaust themselves poor things. If it’s over something they couldn’t have you can’t give in though but you can express sympathy. As I said, that’s the ideal, on a good day. I’m sure I gave in on bad days or lost my rag and screamed.

Sometimes you simply have to act and explain why you are acting

I agree Sweeny. Especially with stuff like the electric socket example. You can reason later “ I’m sorry that shocked you but I was frightened that .....” and then the explanation. As I said my son would only have remembered the shock of my action so any justification was probably more for my sake than his. He understood as he got older.
I don’t think I ever read a book on reasoning parenting but it’s probably a new way of saying something that’s been around for ages. Instinctively I think it’s quite good really but it surely doesn’t mean standing outside a car for an hour and a half? That must be a misinterpretation

miggledyhiggins
I think we are actually agreeing in the main aren’t we. I would not have done what the OPs friend does but I do think you have to find different ways with your kids according to who they are. As I said, one rule doesn’t fit all

Yanbu. I have one like this. It's a shame because she's lovely and I would enjoy spending time with her, but her every movement is dictated by whether or not her children want to do the thing. She's missed important pre planned events because the small DC won't put shoes on.

I reason and am a gentle parent. My kids don’t have epic tantrums. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. Long term my aim is for self discipline not compliance which is why i do what I do.
In the example of a plug socket being played with, I would hold the arm of the child poking so they couldn’t actually injury themselves and explain it could hurt them badly. Depending on the age I might explain more. Then I’d ask them if they or me wanted to put the fork away. Then distract with something else.

It IS slower, no doubt.

I never said one rule did fit all. I said doing nothing is not acceptable, and blaming lazy parenting on the kids personality is also unacceptable. I've got easy kids and very challenging kids, you have to find what works. Doing nothing is not an option.