AIBU or was my Mum? Family WW3!

[Gracie2906]

So basically I phoned my Mum yesterday morning and asked if she could have My LO Saturday so that DP and I could go to an event, she said I don’t know til your father comes home from work (fully understand and appreciate this!), however event organiser phoned me again and said I’m gonna sell my tickets I need to know now if you want them, so I said ah I can’t commit cos I don’t know if my mother will have LO; so I’ll phone her again and see if my fathers home from work and whether or not a decision has been and I'll let you know ASAP however appreciate you may need to sell your tickets in the interim so that you're not lumbered with them!

When I phoned DM she said for god sake; me and your father are too old and bad for this; LO is hard work blah blah blah - again fully appreciate this so took her response as a 'NO'.

I told lady selling tickets we couldn’t go and to sell the tickets elsewhere. Roll on a few hours my father phones me a few hours later and said we’ve had a chat and we will have LO tomo for you to attend; so I was like thanks but you’re too late Lady sold the tickets as we told her we were unable to attend; he then starts shouting at me why has she gone and done that, why would she sell tickets knowing you wanted to go.... I explained after the convo DM and I had had when he was in work that I based her response on the fact it was probably going to be a no, with that my DM begins screaming down the phone at me alongside DF saying at no point did she say outright no! Again I fully appreciate this however tickets had to be sold on blah blah blah...

DP is next to me whilst this fiasco is ongoing as we are painting LOs bedroom, neither parent would allow me to get a word in so DP overshouts "for god sake she's 18 weeks pregnant and can do without the stress don't worry about it; we aren't going!" Neither parent stops screaming from their end so I hung up! I thought to myself I can't be arsed to deal with this shit; plus I'm upto my eyeballs in paint!!!

Roll on 10mins and DM & DP fly through my front door in a rage; continuing to scream at me. I'm all a bit shocked and burst into tears (as well as hormonal I think!) so DP begins to stick up for me and Says DMIL I heard both convos you cannot deny saying that you were too old and too bad, DM then accuses us of having secrets in our relationship but her and DF do not obviously I questioned her on this as she was insinuating I have secrets from DP - she then admits she has no evidence DP and I have secrets from one another - so where the bloody hell did that comment come from??? She could of potentially caused WW3 between DP and I!

Argument ensues for at least another twenty minutes by which point DF is stood in hallway trying to usher DM out; I'm sat on the sofa sobbing and DP is sat on the other sofa with DM stood between us screaming about how awful we are for not taking LO with us, and hypocritical I am for allowing him to stay with her when we would attend event as I don't agree with kids being palmed off for the record I don't like children being passed from pillar to post with no stability when parents are out on the lash; however DP and I haven't been out since Christmas parties!!!! But I hardly feel as if this constitutes as a child being passed from pillar to post!

Moving on, DM owns our house and we pay a set amount each month to her and then when value of house is repaid we will own house; so technically DM sees herself as our landlord and the house is basically the only hold she has over us; so she then starts shouting I'm changing your tenancy agreement - we don't have one you will be having quarterly inspections and this is all I want to do with you! Slightly ataken back DP responds with no problem, we look forward to the first inspection, the doors that way! Well, if he did.... she began Screaming don’t you dare speak to me like that boy! 😂😂 and he replied something along the lines of you don’t tell me what to fuckin do you may think you can do it to your daughter but not me! she was screaming at him don’t you swear at me you may use that language but I don’t...then I said to her exactly why have you come here screaming? She said I didn’t I come here to talk to you! with that DF drags her out of the house; the whole time he's said nothing whilst here. DP locks the door and I fall into his arms sobbing partly with embarrassment as to how she's acted and partly because I'm just devastated with it all!

I’ve been thinking all afternoon I cannot for the life of me think what provoked such a heavy argument other than the fact that she said one thing and meant another? Cos perhaps she knew all along her and DF would have LO she just likes being in control and stringing me along! (For the record she is very controlling and everything has to go her way!)

I agree DP shouldn't of swore at her, but he really was at the end of her tether after watching her screaming at me knowing I'm pregnant! As well as this DM made a comment recently in front of DP that as I am adopted "her family are her family and I'm very lucky they've accepted me " I was adopted at 6mths old for the record! As you can appreciate DP wanted to throat punch her when she said this as he noticed my face dropped! (I couldn't quite believe she said it!)

My opinion is she likes me to be 'alone' and be dependant on her and DF for things; she doesn't like the fact that DP supports me cos she accused him of being my back up! The only other reason I can rationalise in my heads as to why she behaved as she did is jealousy of the fact DP and I are having a baby; obviously something she couldn't do naturally but how the hell am I responsible for that? I'm not! And I'm more than understanding about it all, but at the same time I should be allowed to enjoy my pregnancy!

Anyway, I'm rambling now, think it's cos I'm still so upset! Don't know what I really expect from posting in here but just someone to give their opinion outside of the situ would be nice xx

Sorry to hear this op. It sounds like she was that way out and matters escalated very quickly and ridiculously. She was clearly incensed by your dp's intervention again due to her earlier comment. She should have taken a minute to think and not stormed round to your house. She is controlling and childish.

The adoption comments, well my dm was like this as well (I am adopted). Even as a child of about 11/12, even in small disagreements she would tell me the worst thing she ever did was get me. In the end, it didn't even bother me. I look back now and all the rest of my family never treated me in any way differently at all and I was just one of the crowd - as it should be. Just horrible behaviour. She should be grateful for you not vice versa.

She wont undertake an inspection of the house, believe me. She has made a complete and utter fool of herself.

so technically DM sees herself as our landlord and the house is basically the only hold she has over us; so she then starts shouting I'm changing your tenancy agreement - we don't have one hmm you will be having quarterly inspections and this is all I want to do with you!

This is showing that your DM loves to have power over you. As a pp has said, she won’t sign the house over to you. She loves the power too much. I’d start finding somewhere else to live after this comment.

Your parents are toxic, your mother is probably a narcissist and you need to reduce or stop contact. Unless you dance to her tune you will always be in the wrong. Any conflict always has to end with her being the victim as she cannot take responsibility. The rage is because she was not in control. A controlling parent loves you to be reliant on them so plan how you are going to live independently, staying in a house they own will always give her power over you.
Remember none of this is your fault, they are bonkers! Concentrate on your own family, your DP sounds great. You are probably a very empathetic person if you have grown up trying to keep your mother happy and it’s time to put yourself first, especially as you’re pregnant.

I'm so sorry, @Gracie2906 your mum isn't any kind of mum to you. I agree with the PPs who think she might be jealous that you've been able to get pregnant when she never could. As an adoptive mum myself, though, I would say that it really is no excuse. I just couldn't imagine feeling jealous, but then I'm actually looking forward to at least one of my 2 DDs having children, as I never had the opportunity to look after a newborn.

The fact she's your adoptive mum is a red herring in this instance. Chances are she would have been no better if she'd given birth to you herself. I have a mum who is toxic as well, she's so good at getting into my head, because she's always supposedly trying to 'help'. What really demonstrated it to me was when we took our 19 year old French au pair with us when we visited my DSis and her family, and not her.

I recommend the Stately Homes thread on the Relationships board, it's a thread where posters who came from toxic families can find non judgemental support.

You can PM me if you think talking about it further would be of benefit.

There's nothing in your post to suggest your actions caused this argument so YANBU.

I can imagine your DM being frustrated at being asked twice when she's doing you a favour and she did say she couldn't answer till DF got home and you did call again before he was home so I can why she was annoyed.

Why that then escalated into your LO being hard work/bad etc is clearly your DM's underlying issues. People who do favours for others then remind them are doing them no favours at all. Adoption could be seen as a 'favour' to a child which the child 'owes' to the adoptee but seriously?? Who would hold that over their child? My DH is adopted and never ever has it been mentioned other than in passing but positive ways. His aunties adore him. There's no question he's not loved by their whole family.

The screaming at a pregnant woman is unacceptable. You don't need the stress but really at that point what was there to say? She didn't need to do childcare and you had accepted you weren't going to the event. She should have moved on and left it. I suspect putting down the phone on her was the trigger but why should you continue to be abused once the decision had been made? She didn't need to do anything so why keep going on about it?

The good news part of the story is your DP standing up for you. Yes he shouldn't have sworn at her but people at the end of their tether can understandably drop the odd swear word to be heard.

@ElsieMc I'm so sorry, that was such an awful thing for her to say, my DD1 lashes out regularly and backchats all the time, but I understand that it's not her fault, it's because she has Attachment Disorder. When you adopt, it's so important that your child knows that they really are part of the family, my DDs get so anxious when they don't know where DH and I are. They need so much reassurance.

She was being difficult, controlling, to you over your babysitting request, and the subsequent conversation with your Dad exposed that she had done that and made her look bad. Which she couldn’t accept. Though I can’t work out why your Dad was shouting at you on the phone, unless it was just sheer exasperstion that you had missed out on something rather than just be offered the babysitting.

Why did your Mum have to ask him anyway? Surely she knows if they had plans?

Let the dust settle and see if she apologises. I’d look at getting them out if the house immediately to restore the parent-child relationship without the added complication of mortgagor/lender.

There are so many threads on MN where the parents acting as landlords have caused disagreements. It sounds like a terrible way to live, and as long as you’re living there, it’s going to be used to control you. Private renting is shit, but at least you can make your own sanctuary away from controlling parents.

Wait run - they don't look after him anytime other than a Friday afternoon after school for two hours and that's because they want him and not because it's needed. LO is in full time school and my job allows me to work term time so no need otherwise; we also don't generally go out together without him so looking back the last time I can recollect them looking after him because it was needed was for DP and I to go to see Miss Saigon in the theatre in November last year! Xx

Diddl - they always consult one another before making any decisions. It's just how they are so not out of the ordinary x

Yoga girl - no neither are of particularly poor health - Mum late 50s and Dad early 60s. Mums retired and Dad works in a fairly well paid cushty job.

Neither have had any bad news I'm aware of which could of caused the reaction, that said, it's not the first time she's behaved like this so seems in character if you catch me drift!

Sorry forgot to add no she will never apologise because to her I know she thinks she's in the right - me however I normally end up caving and apologising even tho I know I'm not actually in the wrong. Which kinda brings me into why I posted on here this morning, cos, I wanted to check I wasn't in the wrong and should be apologising!

In relation to being menopausal I'm not hugely clued up, however, that said she had a hysterectomy in her 30s so that will of meant she went through the change then wouldn't it? Xx

In relation to her forgiving DP for swearing at her I really don't care if she does forgive him or not - ultimately he's not ever going to forgive her for her behaviour or what was said but more of a forget but not forgive kinda thing and I think moving forward she's going to have to be willing to do the same!

Some of the comments stating why she behaved as she did seems to have really hit the nail on the head; all rings so true!

DP said yesterday he's willing to speak to her again as long as I don't expect him to apologise - and to be honest I don't expect him to, all he was doing was defending me and his family! I actually admire DP for doing so, and not standing there like a mouse as DF did - he must of known DM was in the wrong. I lay awake last night thinking I wonder if he's told her she was in the wrong or whether he's still agreeing with her in fear of going against her! Surely they will of discussed what happened? And not just pretend nothing happened after such an intense encounter x

I don't want to read too much into your post OP as it's obviously just about this one event and so I could be misjudging but I'd suggest reading some stuff on narcissistic personality disorder (daughters of narcissistic mothers website is very good). The irrationality, the rage, the silent enabling father, the jealousy and attempt to sabotage your relationship with DP with her comment, the unforgivable comment about your adoption, the control.......all sound worryingly similar to my MIL. She has NPD and its an incredibly toxic and soul destroying relationship to have.

Your mother is a toxic narcissist. I would reduce contact as much as possible!

Fucking hell.

In no way on God's green earth would I be apologising.

I'd stay NC until my DM apologised for completely over-reacting and causing a stinking row.

What she said about your adoption and family is pretty fucking unforgiveable.

Get your finances in order, get out.

Then reassess what relationship your family unit has with her in the future.

I agree with @NoSquirrels - the adoption comment was bang out of line and so far removed from the normal thought process of adoptive families I know. I think her saying that tells you everything about what kind of woman she is.
Do not apologise to her for this recent encounter - in your shoes I would be insisting she apologises to me! Now is the time to draw your own line in the sand. Tell her that you are willing to move on but she must apologise and absolutely never speak to you like that again.

If your mother kept her ovaries then no, she won’t have gone through the menopause then. If they were taken as well, then yes, she’ll have gone into immediate menopause at the time.

If your parents are toxic, which it sounds as if they are, I don’t think you could have won on this one. Had you gone ahead an booked the tickets on the offchance they’d be ok to have your dd, you’d have been ungrateful, inconsiderate etc etc. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Do they like winning?

What she said about adopting you was absolutely vile. You should have been brought up in the knowledge that they wanted a child so much and they were truly blessed when they found you.

You say your DF stood by and said nothing, but he had plenty to say on the phone.

He's not much better than your mum.

Your mother sounds like mine. The keeping you dangling over childcare, is a form of control - she was waiting for the big reveal that she could do it, and for you to be very grateful, and you took away her moment of being the amazing grandparent stepping in to save the day - that's why she was angry.

I don't know the ins and outs of your house arrangements, but it was a big mistake to put yourself in her power and I would be doing all I could to get out of this arrangement, even if it financially cripples you.

and I would never ask for a favour again (unless real emergency and you have no other choice) - it will just be held over you.

my mother used to constantly remind me of all the things they'd paid for me to do as a child (private education, holidays etc etc). Eventually I told her that I was of course grateful for all these things, if she begrudged it so much, she was welcome to give me an itemized bill of everything she'd ever spent and I would pay it back as soon as humanly possible. Not surprisingly, this was never brought up again.

I think you should look at moving some distance away to a home that isn’t owned by your mother, even if it means renting. Would it be easier for you to buy if you moved to another area?

Don’t ask her to look after your DC again as it’s more trouble than it’s worth. If you don’t go out very often it will be worth paying for childcare rather than giving your mother power over you.

fair enough to not want to look after your LO. However nothing else about how they have behaved is okay. They sound utterly unhinged. Im glad your DP supported you and got them to leave. Theres no way they shouldve started shouting at you like that and actually come round to confront you! Thats mental behaviour. YANBU

What she said about your adoption is shocking. Was your dad around to hear that when she said it? If not, she'll deny deny deny that it was ever mentioned but how could two other adults (you and your DH) make something so utterly unforgivable up?
I'd ignore her and if she makes contact I'd say "Neither DH or I have anything to say to your or DF until you apologise for your outburst and for the content of that outburst. I'll give you 15 seconds to apologise and if you don't, I'm hanging up the phone/closing the door/walking away and don't expect to hear from us or see any of us again. Ever".