To think a significant minority of MN users don't respect SAHMs?

[Bumpitybumper]

During my time on this forum I have seen the following views being expressed about SAHMs:

• SAHMs are bad feminists and therefore not entitled to any kind of opinion regarding feminist issues. Particular objections are raised about SAHMs having thoughts about feminism in the workplace irrespective of their previous experiences when they were employed.

- SAHMs are sponging financially off their DPs and just don't want to get a job. Many posters seem to think it is impossible for a SAHM's non financial contributions to equal or exceed the financial contribution provided by the breadwinning partner. SAHMs therefore deserve less than there working partners in any break up/divorce.

• SAHMs should be responsible for all housework regardless of capacity to fit this in during the day. If a SAHM struggles to get things done due to ages and temprament of children they are told they are just not trying hard enough.

-SAHMs should do the vast majority, if not all the night wakings with babies and young children. This usually extends to women on maternity leave and holds true even if SAHM is shattered and her working partner is relatively well rested.

There are loads more examples too that I can't think of right now, but I see it pretty much on a daily basis. Is this just me or is the quite a lot of disdain for SAHMs on MN?

A stay at home parent is contributing ofc, but are they really contributing half of whatever the other partner does regardless of what they do? I don’t think so.

It depends on how you quantify 'contribution'. Obviously it is not going to be financial. A SAHM by virtue of her status is going to be able to provide a great deal of flexibility to 'take care' of come whilst high-earning partner focuses on career to bring home the proverbial bacon.

Ohlalasayohla
or whichever you prefer.
Total respect -it’s hard enough with 2 DCs and both of us.

Slightly cheers!

I find it strange that anyone, male or female, would rather “stay at home” than have a job, earn money and take advantage of the general social aspects of work.

I do also find it strange that people eat Salad Cream rather than mayonnaise, support Sheffield Wednesday not United, and prefer red wine to white. Turns out people are different.

Not quite as bad as the comments working mums get about sahm being there kids unlike me working mums

Being a SAHM is a choice and a luxury IMHO.
Not everyone has the choice and not everyone can afford to stay at home with their DC.

As for respect. What about it? People earn respect. Some SAHM believe that working mothers are doing the worst thing a mother can do by leaving their child in a nursery whilst they work. Women who hold this opinion don't deserve my respect.

I think it's rarely a choice - it's just a reaction to circumstances (finances, ill health, disabled child). Most of us are just winging it and hoping we'll come out the other end having done a decent job of whatever it is.

Some nasty comments on here already.
Boxsets all humans should command and demonstrate respect from each other. Why shouldn’t they?

A good friend of mine is a sahm. She deserves as much respect as a dr/nurse/heart surgeon for these reasons -

1. A heart surgeon in particular will be taking home a very good wage, of course they deserve that, but they don’t go to work for free. Why do they deserve any more respect than anyone else?

1. My sahm friend believes she is doing what’s best for her family. How many people put their dc second, third or even last?

1. Like it or not (I’m a working mum because I have to be so it pains me to say it) there is good evidence for particularly small children to be at home with their primary care giver for the first few years of life, for their attachement, development and self confidence/esteem. Many children find childcare settings stressful. Sahms deserve respect for providing an ideal environment for their dc in the early years. (Again I repeat I’m a working mum and I’ve had to trade off this ideal environment for the fact I have to work).

Likewise, working mums who manage to get a balance deserve respect for juggling everything. Respect works both ways.

1. My friend who is a sahm has the most polite, and well behaved children I know (put my ds to shame sob, sob). She is a very gentle soul, provides support to the children’s school and no doubt, her dc will grow up as lovely as their mum and very well adjusted. That is a big contribution to society. Far more than someone who worked every hour they could, paid plenty tax, barely spent any time with their dc, and the dc grows up insecurely attached and with all kinds of difficulties.

Now I’m not saying every child with two full time working parents grows up insecurely attached and with difficulties (I hope not given my own circumstance). But there will be some who have always played second fiddle to their parents career.

If the only value we have in society is to work (ideally as a teacher/nurse/heart surgeon, look after everyone else’s family instead of our own!), and earn as much as possible to pay taxes, why don’t we just make the role of a mother completely redundant and all get full time nannies?

I ve not read this thread but I am currently a sahm, I worked up until about 3 days before first DC was born and nearly 13 years later after another dc I am looking for work and hope to get a PT job soon or school job.

I miss apart from the extra money the social interaction, stimulation. BUT its been a sacrifice many financial sacrifices have been made. Keeping costs down, has become a job! Reduced food, which supermarket reduces when etc, second hand stuff, free stuff...constantly selling stuff, and watching the pennies.

DH is not a banker with a huge bonus, and its been really hard for a lot of the time at home with small dc. It has not been luxurious, easy etc. or Lucky as someone had the cheek to say once.

I mentioned on the other thread I have been surrounded by people who seem to have good salaries and nice houses stressing about new taps - having to work - with dc in nurseries all the hours god sends.

Another one said to me " I have to work I have to go back to work we cant afford it otherwise" but over time you get rough ideas what peoples outgoings are - and for instance their house may be a smaller up grade on mine, but similar vein, but they have the fancy new decking in the garden - ours is crumbling and has been for a decade....they have the landscape gardener in to put fancy seating in, we just make do as best we can, they go on holiday to the same place but have the fancier hotel and book last min - we are in the budget option - booking earlier to save ££, they drive there in a new 4 x 4, we have the old family car of ten years...scratched, dented...I dye my own hair, she spends ££ at hair dressers...we have old sofas, they have new - they spend a lot more ££ on stuff we make do with

The things are a choice no one has to have all those things^^ so its hard when we do without - we choose too....to be with young dc, and some one is talking to me saying - I have to work...we cant afford for me not too.

But what can I say? If I say - well its been a struggle but we have chosen to see as much of our dc as we can..I can work till the day I die if necessary and dc are long gone on with their new lives but right now I want to be with my dc as much as I can???? Because the bottom line is - it sounds like I am being judgmental and love my dc more. So one can't say anything...

I wish she could say I work because I like nice new things and nicer cars.

A single mum and plenty of other people truly have to work and literally scrape by - with food banks etc.

People who buy a shit loads of crap really work to fund that, its not have its want.

Good post tooteary, I have a friend in china, married into chinese family she said her dh has no relationship with his parents because they worked since he was tiny - her dh spends hours sitting at work even when nothing to do very late at night, its the culture and she hates it. She wants a baby but said she wants to relocate to Europe again first. All working for the state. Shaming women who stay at home.

Is it any worse than comments that there are about working mums, having “other people bring up their children” etc?

I don’t know why women can’t just support other women and their choices. I can’t imagine much worse than being a SAHM personally but I’d never bad mouth or look down on those who are.

I'm largely a SAHM and haven't found MN hostile to that. People have opinions and that's fine. Certainly in real life nobody really cares.

Being a SAHM is not a feminist decision. I am facilitating a man, my DH, to "give his all" at work. No doubt this contributes to the culture of presenteeism at his workplace. I am a supporter and champion of women, but I'm doing nothing to further the feminist cause and I contribute to the male-centric status quo.

However, me being at home with our kids is not a social experiment or a political statement, it is best for them and us at the moment.

Women are often perceived judgemental of each other. We are socialised to constantly feel we have to justify our right to live in the way we do. A great way to defend is to attack others. I do my best to rise above it (and fail, multiple times daily!)

I’ve always thought that if we respected what mothers do, then the knock on effects for society, standards of childcare, women’s rights, women’s choices, men’s emotional life quality and everyone’s mental health could be enormous.

Childcare is a low status occupation whether it’s paid or unpaid. Without respect it is never going to attract and retain the best, brightest and most passionate people. Nor will men be encouraged to take a role that is considered demeaning and that massively disadvantages women.

Many women sah for reasons that are financially sound for their families and then get trapped at home or in low-paid work as their DH’s career benefits from the significant advantages of having a spouse at home (there are two superb threads in feminism about the phenomenon of facillitated men ) and many men end up working long hours and not experiencing the care of their children. I would argue that the greatest beneficiaries of feminism have been fathers, who unlike older generations have been enabled to actually have relationships with their children. But this needs to go much further.

As a sahm I’ve spent hundreds of hours in parks, playgrounds and school yards and I can instantly distinguish parents and grandparents from paid childcarers. I’ve only ever seen one child minder whose warmth and attention made me wonder if she was related to the children she was caring for. I wonder if we could bravely and honestly look at what sahms do, might we not raise the bar for paid childcare?

Sahms were equally disparaged in the past- the lack of respect for women, and the social inequalities justified by those attitudes underlay the feminist movement. The initial aims of feminism were respect, but only paid work (men’s work) commanded respect. Nothing has changed. In my view that indicates a significant failure within feminism.

A cursory glance at attitudes to mothers in various historical periods shows how culturally bound our perceptions of women’s roles are, and how those have been economically driven. Women during ww2 were told how much children would benefit from nursery care and time away from their mothers, then when women were being pushed back in the home to make jobs for men after ww2, the amazing benefits of sah care were spouted.

The current attitudes to sahm, and working mothers benefit the economy, but that doesn’t mean that they are in our best interests.

I hear ya Op - I'm a Work at Home Mum - so to all observers I'm a SAHM. As I'm also an LP to SEN DC, Work, life, caring are just a big roll into one. But to any observers I'm a SAHM, non-working LP with an understanding LL. Yes I'm poor, working poor and with a DC with SEN being an LP is pretty much a forever given, I'm also an aged crone so hardly potentially Partnertastic. I also don't have a LL as I scrimp to pay off my suitably crone-ish mortgage.

I suppose one of my amusements is putting the opinionated, judgepantstoobig4arse people right.

I'm currently a SAHM and have worked PT/ FT too since having the DCs.

Contrary to most of society's expectations, I find a greater benefit in being more avaliable to my DC now they are at school. Nursery was fine, they were happy there from 8-6 as they had space, choice and down time. In the absence of local family, they found long days finishing in after school club to be exhausting and stressful.

It simply wasn't viable for DH and I to both work long hours, and it was quite honestly a nightmare when he was working away and I had to manage everything myself. This is massively limiting on my employment options and we are in a position where as a package of family life/ income/ value for time, life works best if I don't work while the DCs require wrap around care.

When I worked, the DCs were around 20 hours less per week to generate mess! Deeper cleaning/ decluttering just didn't happen and I'm still shifting the backlog from the baby/ toddler days that I didn't have time to deal with.

Most people make the best choice they can in their circumstances which covers a large variety of factors.

The most random RL encounter I had on this theme was at 30wks pg with DC2 when I was quite clearly staggering around painfully with SPD. The woman I was talking to got quite irate at the concept that working as a casual supply teacher in that condition simply wasn't viable, particularly as work opportunities hadn't occured in the second trimester, and it would have been a hell of a shock to my body to suddenly have to stand and move around schools for 6+ hours a day. "But I worked as a...!" Lovely. But it's different when you work continuously and your body adjusts, and you're not affected by a condition that will have you on crutches a few weeks later Some people just have a spectacular lack of imagination! The only other person that was affected by that decision was DH.

I'm a productive member of society... I volunteer in about 4 different ways. I only managed one when working

Excellent post annwithnoe.
You raise some very valid points about the status of those who care for children.

Anyone who judges SAHMs is anti-feminist and anti female choice.

A stay at home parent is contributing ofc, but are they really contributing half of whatever the other partner does regardless of what they do? I don’t think so.

Not all SAHPs (SAHMs) are created equal.

Ohsuchaperfectday those luxuries you speak of might be simply a bonus of those people working , I expect not many people work just so they can have a nice new car.

Both of us have to work , my DH’s salary is enough to pay our mortgage and bills but not food, petrol or expenses like car insurance etc. So I go out to work so we can afford those essentials too but it does also mean we can usually go on holiday once a year and have iPhone contracts but I don’t work JUST to afford those.

I do not care what other people do - as long as it works for them. Each to their own.

I am the scum of the earth by all sides, single working parent. I have had the patronising SAHM comments blasted at me - being their for my DCs, better for them, they are missing out - don't I see that I am harming them yada, yada yada.

I work and am constantly told I should be staying late and am not committed because I go home on time to look after my DCs - yada yada yada

I commute to work and did with DCs to nursery close to work, verbally abused by women and men. Benefits bitch, lazy cow not looking after my DCs properly, sponger .........

I work because if I did not I would be on benefits and a drain on the tax payer because EX contributes eff all.

Do what you want - I would rather not work two jobs to survive but after 15 yrs of marriage was not expecting EX to walk out!!

It is the one thing about Mumsnet that I find seriously off putting. I had never considered being judged for being a SAHM before I read some of the attitudes on here. Those of you who say you don’t judge SAHMs but can’t understand their choice, do you have no imagination? I can absolutely comprehend why a woman might choose to work or work part time even though I don’t choose to do it.

*Boxsetsandpopcorn

I stay at home full time and I'm also a director of a company. I pay tax, NI, vat and an accountant.
Mothers made an amazing contribution to society.*

Feminism is about choices..
When we had 3 small children life was much easier for everyone when I stayed at home, so why wouldn't I, when finances allowed.

Most children would prefer a parent to be looking after them rather than a child carer....but it doesn't need to be the women.

Excellent post Annwithnoe

I’ve been sahm and wohm and it’s all work at the end of the day.

People who are genuinely happy working don't bash SAHM. Those who aren't do

Absolutely no desire to be a SAHM and love my job so that's rubbish.

I've a husband who isn't one of these helpless men that needs a woman at home to be able to do his job nor do I want to opt out of providing for myself and children and leave that to others.

We teach children to work hard at school and to aim high, that doesn't do hand in hand with them watching a parent not bother working.