To think a significant minority of MN users don't respect SAHMs?

[Bumpitybumper]

During my time on this forum I have seen the following views being expressed about SAHMs:

• SAHMs are bad feminists and therefore not entitled to any kind of opinion regarding feminist issues. Particular objections are raised about SAHMs having thoughts about feminism in the workplace irrespective of their previous experiences when they were employed.

- SAHMs are sponging financially off their DPs and just don't want to get a job. Many posters seem to think it is impossible for a SAHM's non financial contributions to equal or exceed the financial contribution provided by the breadwinning partner. SAHMs therefore deserve less than there working partners in any break up/divorce.

• SAHMs should be responsible for all housework regardless of capacity to fit this in during the day. If a SAHM struggles to get things done due to ages and temprament of children they are told they are just not trying hard enough.

-SAHMs should do the vast majority, if not all the night wakings with babies and young children. This usually extends to women on maternity leave and holds true even if SAHM is shattered and her working partner is relatively well rested.

There are loads more examples too that I can't think of right now, but I see it pretty much on a daily basis. Is this just me or is the quite a lot of disdain for SAHMs on MN?

I wouldn't judge because it is a personal decision. But I hate SAHM mums who demand their DHs to come home 'at this instant' when that's not how corporate life works. Yes I've had a few occasions when meetings have to be cancelled because the spoiled madam wanted her hubby home, for no good reason btw. Or who keep pestering their DHs to ask for pay raise even if they havent earned it. I respect anybody with some degree of intelligence and savviness, these types of SAHMs embarrass me as a woman. Even their DHs seem embarrass of them.

Absolutely no desire to be a SAHM and love my job so that's rubbish.

I've a husband who isn't one of these helpless men........blah blah blah

So bloody typical.

I say again, as a person who has done both, why exactly, if you're sooooo happy with your choice do you find it necessary to be quite so condescending and derogatory about the choices of others?

I could not care less whether a woman stays at home or has a job. What I DO object to is SAHM's attempts to justify their existence . For example: (courtesy of fb, natch) non stop today! 2 wash loads, trip to the post office and mowed the lawn!!
These are the things that make many other people fucked off. That isn't a busy day, that's a day. And there was work in between. I would almost prefer that Sahms just embraced it and gave us updates about Loose Women. But don't pretend you are knocked out with running an empty house.

I’ve always thought that if we respected what mothers do, then the knock on effects for society, standards of childcare, women’s rights, women’s choices, men’s emotional life quality and everyone’s mental health could be enormous.

Totally agree with everything you said annwithnoe

It's clear from this thread that raising children is not seen as a valuable contribution to society when actually raising functional human beings is pretty essential for all of society.

Raaah. I had never considered being judged for being a SAHM before I read some of the attitudes on here.
I've never heard anything like this in real life either. I'm in Australia and I've never, ever heard anyone ever say that SAHMs don't contribute to society, sponge off taxpayers, etc.
Has this been the government's line in the UK?

Great post @Annwithnoe. Especially loved the bits about feminism being about women wanting respect, but only being able to gain it through taking paid work and how you can distinguish paid childcare workers from SAHPs. I have thought similar in the past, but have not known how to phrase my thoughts without sounding goady or that I was judging WOHPs for using childcare. It's such a minefield of sensitivities on both sides!

I respect people who are good, decent, with sound values. Whether they work, don’t work, are a parent or childless.

I don’t understand why a SAHM (or SAHD) should be automatically worthy of respect simply because of that role. Neither would I think someone who works is automatically worthy of respect

We are in a country where we pay a lot of tax in return of free medical care, schools, pensions, all sorts of benefit therefore we rely on people to pay tax. I dont think all working parents contribute more than non working families, especially the benefit of things like right to buy at massive discount which obviously has to come out of tax payers money.

Where I came from you hardly hear fights like this because you pay less tax and you get less free stuff. Not saying It's better of course but people concentrate on either work really hard to climb the career ladder (very competitive world) or find a rich husband and no one will ever complain they dont go to work!

I think that there is a danger in staying at home with older children that you end up becoming a manager of their lives, to their detriment.

When I see ‘support’ threads for GCSEs, A levels and even university-aged adults and realise it is for their parents, not the children, it does shock me somewhat.

What people do privately is their own business and if you are lucky enough to be able to ‘work’ 3-4 hours a day as a SAHP to teenagers, good for you. However, it really is not stressful or difficult, unless you set it up to be so (trying to keep up the fitness regime of an athlete, pursuing a second demanding hobby, micromanaging every minute of your children’s day etc).

Horses for courses but being a SAHP for older children is a privilege not many can afford and there is a danger of stopping one’s children’s natural development of independence.

But can’t you hear yourselves? Horses for courses and I could not care less what a woman chooses to do and I wouldn’t judge because it’s a personal decision and then you all go on to say exactly why you do care and judge and why a woman should have to justify her existence as a SAHM. It is such a superior, mysoginistic attitude and from women on what is a predominantly women’s forum. It’s really disheartening.

Or who keep pestering their DHs to ask for pay raise even if they havent earned it

How the hell do you know their wives are pestering them to ask for a pay raise, unless they’re coming in to you and saying ‘my wife says I need more money?’ Which is completely unprofessional and says more about the male employer than the wife IMO.
I get involved in DH’s working life when he asks me too (we used to work in the same industry and he often thinks I have a valuable opinion to contribute to something). His remuneration package is entirely his business to negotiate.

*employee, not employer

penelope the government introduced an increase in funded child care hours from 15 (that everyone is entitled to)to 30 for working families with dc over 3 years. It's been appallingly implemented (not properly funded and there isn't really the provision)but it has benefitted all of my friends who both work. I suppose losing child benefit on single salaries over £50k (you lose it gradually from £50-60k) but not households that earn up to £100k (two earners on £49,999 each would keep it, one on £51k would lose some)might be seen as benefiting duel income households too. There is also a voucher scheme whereby you can get more childcare for you r money, but you are limited to the amount you can buy a month.
Both parents working is absolutely the default position here and being a SAHP is relatively uncommon (just under 1 in 10 I think). One parent working ft and the other pt/compressed hours/nights/evenings/weekends is much more common.

Including myself I know of 5 SAHP and I thjnk that's an unusually large amount, 2 are men which is very unusual. I think SAHP who never return to work are very, very rare unless there is a reason other than their dc (illness that would prevent them from workkng).
Sometimes from reading mn you'd think the uk was awash with women sitting about watching TV, pretending to be busy, bashing WOHPs on fb, demanding their husbands come home for no reason ! In reality a small % of women SAH whilst their dc are little, some chose to, some have 2 dc close together and can'y afford to work, some have other reasons. I imagine most worked before they had dc and most will return to work when their dc go to school.

As a SAHM I’ve only once asked DH to come home from work, and that was because I was in established labour

Boxsets if you have chosen to hand over your dc to a nursery from an early age, because you believe this is the only way to set your dc a good example, that’s fine.
But please stop bashing women who’ve had the opportunity to stay home and raise their dc.
You sound bitter and twisted.

soy, I asked dp to come home when I fell down the stairs whilst pregnant and holding ds. The cheek of it!

Actually I’ve remembered a second time... I was 37 weeks pregnant with DC2 and DC1 (then 19 months) fractured her leg. He was in an all day meeting though and didn’t answer his phone so my mum came out of work and met me at the hospital instead.

Childcarers in general are not valued as highly as they should be. Nursery staff etc not paid enough. As for SAHMs not contributing to society...?? Ha! Raising great adults isn’t important is it?

I do wonder how those who are hung up on "contributing to society" will cope if they ever suffer from ill health or once they reach retirement. There are lots of people that won't ever be in paid employment again or some who have never had a paid job, but that doesn't mean that they aren't contributing to society. In fact it could easily be argued that those who are not in paid employment but use their time to work as a volunteer for worthwhile causes are contributing MORE to society than most with jobs that exist primarily to turnover a profit for business owners. Of course paying tax is important but it's not the be all and end all.

Childcarers in general are not valued as highly as they should be. Nursery staff etc not paid enough.

I definitely agree with this. The staff at my DC's nursery were amazing, incredibly skilled and hard working but not paid much at all.

When people complain about contributing to society they often fail to see the big picture. If one partner is a high earner they are probably working hours that mean they can't collect their child from school (even after school club) or drop them off. Their spouse is essentially allowing them to earn that salary by staying at home.

Women are arseholes to each other sometimes

Only sometimes?

I wonder how many women will vote no in the Irish referendum for example. What right do they have to dictate what other women do? It's bad enough when men try to control women, but when other women do it too it's even worse.

As for the SAHM thing, my "problem" with it is simply that I don't think it's a very good idea to be dependent on a man. I don't want to be having to ask my children's father if I can buy something. I met a lady via running who had to ask her husband if she could enter a race for example. Stuff that for a game of soldiers, I'll earn my own money and decide how I spend it after household expenses have been covered (and same goes for DH). Also it leaves you vulnerable if said man buggers off, loses his job, gets ill or passes away. Or is abusive and you are stuck in a loveless marriage because you can't afford to leave (my mum fell into that category - she did work PT but didn't earn enough to leave).

I think attitudes towards SAHMs, on here and in real life, have got worse in recent years. I believe it to be down to the economy - I think things are tighter financially for a lot of people now and there is where the resentment sets in.

I am SAHM. I receive quite a lot of negative comments. Some implying that I must not be very clever ("oh I couldn't possibly stay at home, my brain needs stimulating.") Some people like to tell me how incredibly lucky I am, and in some sense it's unfair because they can't afford to do it - I do occasionally point out that there is choice in everything - we have one shit car, shop at Lidl, and go on camping holidays - that isn't luck, that is careful financial planning. Also comments that I'm wasting my education and my career. That they can't understand how I live off my husband's money - it's family money as it happens. The faux concern that my children won't see me as a proper role model as I'm not working. I've heard it all, and then some.

I am judged almost daily (and that is no exaggeration.) I don't feel I am doing anybody any harm here. So why the judgment?

Re my comment above, about sahp contributing but not necessarily half - I think it’s valid. As for all those comments that a high earning partner wouldn’t be able to do their job if not for the contribution of the sahp, that’s not true. I am a single parent in a high pressure job- I often have to work long hours at completely unpredictable times. I manage with paid live in childcare, it’s not ideal but it works. I pay my employees fairly but I don’t in any way think their contribution is equal to half my assets or even my earnings.

So not to denigrate sahps but I don’t buy the argument that financially they have necessarily contributed half (although obv in some cases they have contributed more than half too). Being a sahp is valuable but there are other ways to contribute to society too and the financial benefits should not be any more unlimited than any other vocation.

If one partner is a high earner they are probably working hours that mean they can't collect their child from school (even after school club) or drop them off. Their spouse is essentially allowing them to earn that salary by staying at home.

I see this argument so much, and it's rubbish. Actually in my experience, high earners have more flexibility to dictate the hours they work, and even if this is not the case, spouse could work plenty of jobs that enable them to drop up and or pick up from school/ASC. And in fact there are many families where both parents work long hours and they have nannies/au pairs.