To think a significant minority of MN users don't respect SAHMs?

[Bumpitybumper]

During my time on this forum I have seen the following views being expressed about SAHMs:

• SAHMs are bad feminists and therefore not entitled to any kind of opinion regarding feminist issues. Particular objections are raised about SAHMs having thoughts about feminism in the workplace irrespective of their previous experiences when they were employed.

- SAHMs are sponging financially off their DPs and just don't want to get a job. Many posters seem to think it is impossible for a SAHM's non financial contributions to equal or exceed the financial contribution provided by the breadwinning partner. SAHMs therefore deserve less than there working partners in any break up/divorce.

• SAHMs should be responsible for all housework regardless of capacity to fit this in during the day. If a SAHM struggles to get things done due to ages and temprament of children they are told they are just not trying hard enough.

-SAHMs should do the vast majority, if not all the night wakings with babies and young children. This usually extends to women on maternity leave and holds true even if SAHM is shattered and her working partner is relatively well rested.

There are loads more examples too that I can't think of right now, but I see it pretty much on a daily basis. Is this just me or is the quite a lot of disdain for SAHMs on MN?

Due to the NHS and free education system, barely anyone is a net contributor to the tax system whether you claim tax credits or not.

I think any vitriol aimed at SAHM’s generally comes from women. Many women seem to think life is a competition for some reason but that they’re only competing with their own sex. In reality, it doesn’t matter whether you choose to be a SAHM or a working mum so long as you have happy, healthy children.

I don't deserve respect as a sahm, I deserve respect as a human being. Why would it bother anyone else what we do? We don't claim any benefits and me being a sahm means my husband is able to be out there keeping the country safe.

For what it's worth, I do "work" in the evenings. I run a sports club for children, I give up my free time (and my family time) to teach other people's children and take no salary from it. All the money we get goes back into the club. Does this earn me the working parents respect now or is it still not earned as I'm not paying tax? My husband pays a lot of tax because I stay home allowing him to progress through the ranks and therefore pay more tax. I suppose I could pay other people to look after my children so I could work, but then I'd be essentially working for free as nothing I could earn would be more than the childcare costs for 3 primary school age children.

I like to hope mumsnet and the fail are polls apart and I think they are really.

Come on don’t let men divide and conquer us!! Let’s say good for you do what right for your family.

If you want to unite over a commen enemy join against self ID. That’s what threatens us. Not sahm or working outside the home

"we ended up in the divorce courts where I was lucky in that the judge saw my contribution (in terms of domestic service to the home and childcare which, if I’d been working, would have been factored out to someone else)"

Of course you made a valuable financial contribution to the marriage. And of course it was right for the court to take account of that.

If you'd been an unmarried SAHM your situation would have been very different.

The only judgement I have is that being a SAHP with an unmarried partner is very, very, very unwise.

This, totally. I'd go further than unwise too, I think, and say irresponsible.

I've been on here as a SAHM and a WOHM, and I think a poster's own situation skews their perception of the MN collective. Now my children are older and I am more removed from the fray, it seems pretty even to me.

I constantly see the rhetoric of why would I have kids just to pay someone else to bring them up used against working women. Which let's be honest is both deeply offensive and erroneous.

There is no need for any of it. There is no need for some form of societal validation either. If you're happy and it works for you, then you Do what works for you.

The working mothers that claim to 'do it all' are talking bollocks, because, quite simply, they aren't doing it all if their kids are being taken care of by someone else and their house is empty. It would be like a SAHP saying that they were in full time paid employment.
Nobody is 'doing it all'.
Each works hard, we each get up early and work hard for the day, we just do it in different ways.
Why is this still a thing.

As an aside, I really can't stand it when SAHMs berate working mums for 'abandoning their children in their formative years'

Boxsets I'm a stay at home mum (I'm not in "gainful" employment) but you don't want to see my tax return from last year. Nor do you want to assume I did not contribute to others in society 😂. Give your head a wobble. Though I acknowledge I'm not necessarily the norm in a cross section...

I don't care what people think of me as a sahm. If you're busy making assumptions and judging me then good for you. I don't care. I'm doing what's right for ME and MY FAMILY and understand that so is everyone else whether you stay at home or work. That is all that matters. Every one is basically doing the best they can for their family. Families should support each other rather than try to claim one way is better. If your children become well grounded and happy adults you've done your job well.

I work. I’m a feminist. I have no issue at all with whether someone works out of the home is a sahm.

It’s a pretty tiresome debate - everyone just does what they think is best for their family, within the restrictions and bounds they have.

Wohms are not better or worse mums that sahms.

Odd no one gets pissy about men who work isn’t it? Only women get flamed for it all.

Now I’ll get annoyed about the work and societal structures that mean there are not equal numbers of stay at home dads, butvon an individual level - meh. You do what suits you.

I have no issue with women who chose to stay at home until they come and make comments about how children raised by SAHM grow up so much better than those who have been looked after by childcare staff.

It makes me especially cross as the vast majority of working mums would be give anything to be SAHM but have to work. The last thing they need is to be told that their kids will suffer as a result by those who are lucky enough to be at home, especially when the assertion has been shown not to be the case anyway.

I'm a SAHM. I have 2 adopted DDs, aged 9 and 6, the 9 year old has SN (we receive DLA for her) and they both have attachment issues. DD1 has had a lot of hospital appointments because of damage to her eyesight and hearing, she wears glasses and hearing aids. She has violent meltdowns, too, and has lashed out against both me and DD2. It regularly leaves me feeling shattered. I also have my own issues, PTSD as a result of childhood SA. I do voluntary work for a Christian charity supporting Central Asian women, which I did full-time for a few years before the DDs came to live with us.

I know I'm fortunate to be able to do this; my DH is on a good salary and I have my own money, I owned my own flat before I married my DH, but then I've had a lot of bad things happen as well in my life, as well. At the end of the day there isn't a right or wrong way, women should be supporting each other not trying to score cheap points against each other.

People won’t say anything as vitriolic in real life because they’re polite. Same with anything really.

Anyway, why should SAHMs command universal respect? The same with WOHMs? There may be plenty of reasons to make a choice which does not warrant respect.

The question for me is why shouldn't SAHM's or WOHM's command universal respect? Why isn't that the base line?

I didn't put those apostrophes in!

I don't understand why people are so bothered about what others do with their lives. I had a friend tell me it must be nice to have so much free time being a sahm, she works in a nursery, my dd is 3 I don't really see our days that differently. I don't send my dd to childcare etc so she is with me all day everyday. I don't really see our lives as different, we are both doing what works for our families.
My dh works long hours, we have no family around, childcare is expensive, we live rurally etc so we made a decision for me to stay at home till our kids go to school. My dh earning potential outstrips mine so it made financial sense. Just like it made financial sense for my friend to go back to work.
I don't understand why we have to compete with each other so much.

TireslSwing Yes, that I what I meant really.

Everyone saying don't seek outside validation, if you're happy with your choice why does it matter etc I think don't appreciate the fact that if we let these attitudes prevail then SAHMs will be subject to even worse prejudice and judgement. Of course this will impact SAHMs in most aspects of their lives whether it's when they try and get back into the workforce and are heavily penalised for having stayed at home with their kids for a few years or even finding that people dismiss their opinions and experiences just because of their SAHM status. Basically why should SAHMs sit back while their role is being undermined, diminished and even stigmatised by society? Of course we should challenge outside perceptions if we believe this is happening.

Surely it depends on the age of the children? Staying at home to look after a 6 month old is a full-time job, but my view does change when someone has a 14 year old (without special needs), and still doesn't want to work. It makes me wonder if they can't hack the working world with its performance reviews, bosses etc. If someone wants to opt out of working, then having kids seems like a get out of jail free card.
Some women then like to say that their husband couldn't have been a high earner if they weren't there to iron his socks, but that makes me sceptical too - plenty of high earning families have two working parents.

People can do as they like, but I have a high earning male friend going though a divorce and his soon to be ex is trying to shaft him for maintenance for herself. She paints herself as having been the power behind his success, when in reality he has been begging her to go back to work since their child was in secondary school. Being a lazy mare is the main reason he is leaving her, and I don't blame him.

I think it's very offensive to say that SAHMs aren't contributing to society. I've been one for more years than I was a working mum, but when I worked as a TA I didn't earn enough to pay tax, so presumably I wasn't contributing to society then either

What I've tried to demonstrate to our kids is that yes, I'm lucky that we can afford for me to be at home at the moment but equally, it's a choice we could afford to make because of the level of education/career choices we'd made together before we had the kids. If my husband had a 'regular' job where he was home every night, and if we'd lived near family who could have helped with childcare I may not have left teaching. As it was, part time wages were cancelled out by nursery fees which is one major factor for many women who may want to work but will see no financial gain.

In my SAHM years I've been involved with scouting, run a preschool and been a school governor which I would have not been able to do if I'd stayed in full time teaching, and I'd like to think I've contributed to society in that way. Currently I'm supporting my mum in looking after my dad and while we're able to do that we aren't adding to the social care problem by needing more input from already stretched services. I suppose my point is that it's not a clear cut issue, and I wish more people would acknowledge that these days at least, we aren't expected to leave the workforce when we become mothers as my mother's generation was, which is actually a good thing.

No problem with SAHMs. Only if they also sponge off the rest of us! Otherwise, it's none of our business.

@Jaxhog

"No problem with SAHMs. Only if they also sponge off the rest of us!"

I don't disrespect SAHPs but I don't have any specific respect for them as a group, either.

There are pros and cons to all lifestyles, you are pretty lucky if you can afford to have the choice, tbh, most of us just get by the best way we can and as far as possible in a way we would like.

I respect parenting as a job, I respect people who live considerate lives that contribute to society a a whole and who are not selfish.

Well blow me, some deeply offensive nonsense being vomited out about SAHM here. Of course if I dared to say any such things about working mums I'd be blasted.
I don't feel entitled to respect but I won't accept being accused of being a waste of space and since you feel it's okay to suggest this I'll say what's on my mind.
I raise my children because you know, someone has to do it. Only difference is I'm not paying another woman minimal wage, thus undermining the inherent value in childcare, to do it.
I actually like, no love, being with my kids. So what? I have inherent worth as a human being because I'm caring for children. Just as the nursery staff do. And teachers. And working mums when they are with their kids.
Now because there are so few SAHM I suppose we are a minority. Working is seen as the norm and the right way.
I don't give a flying cat that I will get lambasted for saying this. When I've put up with rudeness and judgement and kept my mouth shut for fear of offending WOHM.