To think we have been treated shabbily by school ?

[Myrnafoy]

Really need some advice as I'm not sure who is exactly being unreasonable!
Essentially Ds in year 6 had his shoe thrown into a garden by a reception child. Last day of Sats and the class had been told there was no further teaching for the day. Ds and friends decided to play cricket on the field. It was so hot they all took their shoes and socks off and dumped them in a pile. At break time said child above randomly chose ds' shoe and lobbed it over a high privet hedge. Obviously no malice involved. The boys enlisted the dinner ladies to help search for it but unfortunately there was no sign of it. I'm not sure they took it seriously as no one bothered to let the teaching staff know. Reaction was a kind of resigned shrug.
I went into school as soon as Ds came out. I managed to speak to a teacher who was initially a bit incredulous and insinuated that it was probably a prank orchestrated by the year six boys. Flortunately it had been witnessed by several children and the boy himself owned up to it.
Response from the teacher was that Ds had been silly to take his shoes off in the first place, what did he expect with all the young children around ? So actually quite dismissive.
Over the next day or two no progress, so ex-p went in on Monday to see if the school would inform the child's parents of the incident. I suppose we were hoping they'd contribute towards a new pair of shoes but not necessarily the full amount. Initially the head refused point blank and accused us of overreacting. I'll hasten to say that ex-p was perfectly polite but he was shocked by how obstructive she was. The fact is the shoes were relatively new and more than £40. They also had a special insert - Ds has had 9 months of intensive physio for an ongoing condition and the insert was part of the treatment.
Eventually head agreed to speak to the parents. When she phoned ex-p with their number she told him that the boy's dad had spent all evening searching for the shoe and had seen it in a tree in the garden. Ex-p dutifully headed off to try to have a look in the garden but neither he or owner could locate it. Ex-p naturally rang the mum to see which tree they were referring to but the mum changed her story and admitted it had been a child who'd seen it !
When politely asked if she'd care to contribute to a new pair of shoes
she declined because the head had told her to !
I really don't know what to do apart from fume. I personally would have been mortified if my child had done a similar thing and definately offered some kind of financial contribution. I also guess I'm shocked at the head's apparent lack of impartiality and empathy. Unfortunately the school is in a leafy fairly prosperous area of town so I doubt she realises that anyone is experiencing finanicial hardship ! I suppose what l would like to know is whether I should officially complain about her conduct or am I indeed being unreasonable?

I have a dd in reception and i would be mortified if she took someone’s shoe and threw it. Of course they know at the age 4/5 that it’s naughty! I’m shocked by the lack of support from the school and the parents of the boy.

For what it's worth there were apparently 3 dinner ladies supervising the class for most of the day whilst the teachers sorted out admin stuff
I kind of hoped they would have noticed that the boys had all taken their shoes off and maybe intervened but not so Apparently the little boy was playing with his sister who's in ds' class She presumably witnessed it too but who knows.
Since also found out that there are possibly safeguarding issues re supervision. A parent well versed in these matters has recently made a serious complaint about behavioural incidents amongst younger kids

I'd have thought damaging someone's property - and that throwing something could do that is pretty much reinforced from an early age - is against our school's bullying policy. I think I would at least be making the point to the head in writing. Write when you have decided if you are going to ask for your son to be able to wear his trainers. I'm sure you would have thought of this but that strategy could embarrass your son. I have one DC who would be thrilled at the 'rebellion' and one who would be mortified. The parents answer is slightly ridiculous if I'm honest - the head told me not too...honest. I think you have been treated unreasonably. Not sure you will get a different outcome though

Had a very similar thing happen but with a different outcome. Ds when in year 5 was playing with another Year 5 boy at after school club out on the school field. They took off their shoes to make a goal and at some point teh otehr boy lobbed DS' shoe over the fence - but neither of them could subsequently say where exactly. Boy was actually told off by after school staff and when his mum arrived to get him they informed her. I arrived about 5 minutes later, and she came up to me and said Little Freddie's been a silly billy and thrown your son's shoe over the fence, very sorry, shall we say £40? I said I didn't want to take her money off her because of a prank that went a bit wrong but maybe we could all look for the shoe in the trees. she kind of made some lame excuse and they left. DS and I searched for ages in the trees, couldn't see the shoe, so we walked round to the road where the houses were and rang on doorbells. Every single person let us through their house into their back garden to look, but we couldn't find it. Finally at the last house the entire family came into the garden with us to look and their daughter spotted the shoe caught on a branch in the neighbour's tree. That person wasn't at home, so the dad of this family went and got a ladder and climbed into the neighbour's tree himself to retrieve the shoe. An entire road of nice people. One silly boy, and a mother whose instinct was to just hand over cash rather than insist the silly boy help search. I wasn't cross with school, or really even with the boy, but very much with this woman's rubbish parenting.

These things happen at school. The boy was surely told off and his parents contacted and rightly so. But he is only 4 or 5 years old and the story sounds a bit unclear (if he really threw it in that garden why is it not there?) therefore I would have been a bit more understanding and I definitely wouldn’t have asked for money. It was silly of younger boy but 4-5 year olds do silly things and I bet your DC were no angels at that age either. The adults in charge obviously weren’t observing very closely which would worry me more!

I agree OP i would be pretty ticked off if someone else’s child did this to my childs belongings and vice versa! Our DD is only 5 but she alreadys knows about respecting other people's things and no before anybody asks we are not strict no fun parents ! We just believe in showing respect to people and their belongings.

I’d be annoyed at heads response too. Even if she just mentioned to the parents about the incidence, I think it’s always best so parents can talk to their child about right & wrong.
As for them paying for the shoes, I’m not sure id have asked someone to pay, these things happen (I say these things I’ve never heard of this before). Although if my child had done this I would offer to pay. I know reception children might not be held accountable to their actions, but if they’d cost someone money I think it’s polite to pay.

For example, If you’re child was age 4/5 & picked someone’s phone up & dropped it smashing the screen, would you not offer to pay to get it fixed as a parent? Would you say you shouldn’t really have put it down you ran that risk when you did that?

For what it's worth there were apparently 3 dinner ladies supervising the class for most of the day whilst the teachers sorted out admin stuff
This is just nonsense

Derxa I completely agree. The year 6 were sent out after the last Sats test. They were told they could come in for a drink or the loo but as there was no supervision in the classroom itself they had to go back outside

For example, If you’re child was age 4/5 & picked someone’s phone up & dropped it smashing the screen, would you not offer to pay to get it fixed as a parent? Would you say you shouldn’t really have put it down you ran that risk when you did that?
I would say someone leaving an expensive phone out around young children without a protective case is foolish.

There was a thread like this ages back about a babysitter trying to claim damage from the parents when their child dropped their phone/tablet. Consensus was, why did they not have a sutiably protective case and why on earth would you have it around small children?

We are not responsible for other people's actions, but we are responsible for our own actions, lack of actions, common sense (or lack thereof).

YABU - the school is correct, your 10/11 year old son should not have removed his shoes to begin with, (which isn’t allowed) and leave them in easy access to playing 4 year olds.

They weren't near any 4/5 year olds initially.Had been playing there most of the day. The boy in question came over to see his older sister

'For what it's worth there were apparently 3 dinner ladies supervising the class for most of the day whilst the teachers sorted out admin stuff'

As an ex school Bursar, the admin of SATS papers were done by the Head Teacher and I. Immediately after the SATS were taken, the adjudicating teacher brought the papers to the office. They were ticked off a list, put into a sealed envelope and put in a locked cupboard to await collection by a courier. No teachers were allowed to see the completed papers.
No other admin needed!
're the dinner ladies supervising, they were obviously not supervising adequately or they would have seen the children taking off their shoes and the throwing of said shoe.

To be honest I'm not sure it's the other parents fault they weren't there, they weren't supervising the children and yes offering some money would have been a nice gesture but as you say you don't know what money issues anyone has going despite what you may see on the surface.

The school however yes I would put a complaint in probably not specifically about the incident but the whole day, how many kids were these three dinner ladies supervising? Surely there are children to staff ratios! The whole set up of day seems very strange I think I would complain about that

I think the OP is completely in the right but it sounds an uphill struggle to pursue the matter against the school and the parents of the child who threw the shoes. I would put it down to experience and advise the OP’s to tell her own own child not to give the other, less well brought up children, an opportunity to do the same or similar things again. It is a good and early life lesson about other people.

It does seem an odd set up. three midday supervisors being asked to watch a class for the whole day.
I'm a midday supervisor and tbh I could do with eyes in the back of my head and a pair at either side, especially during the summer when the children are let loose on a wider area. Taking shoes off is a definite no no though!
It does sound as though the incident happened at lunchtime, so perhaps the ratio of children to staff was quite high. Not ideal I know, but I imagine it's the same in most schools.

Teacher22 that is a bit harsh. Less brought up child - it is a 4 year old. For all we know - the dumped shoes could have been in the little child way - and in high jinx he has throw them away. I would expect more sense from an 11 year old. But I think you are right - it is a good lesson for this older child, there is consequences of just doing what you like and not thinking

My son should have more sense loliver ! Innocently playing with his friends and belongings right next to them
Blazing hot day and if you'd bothered to read the thread they'd been out in the sun for most of it. The boys had been playing cricket for a while before break started, the 3 dinner ladies were supervising outside breaktime so just 1 class to watch ... it was a large group playing cricket 12-15 boys so not insignificant. Now doubt if it had been a broken window caused by the thrown shoe different matter !

It's annoying they were so dismissive.

My main question is why the hell no one has been over to the school's neighbour to ask
for the shoe?

My DS recently lost his hat in similar circs and the neighbours were more than happy to retrieve and return it!

Ex-p has been to have a look and neighbours were helpful - offered to get ladder out etc

Myrnafoy - you are very defensive. The school are probably thinking - he shouldn’t have had his shoes of in the first place. And yes they would place more responsibility on a 11 year old than 4 year old.

Maybe a reception aged child wouldn’t understand how to respect other people property but this scenario provides an ideal opportunity for her/him to learn a very pointed lesson... parent of offending child could very well drive this lesson home by taking them up and down the street to search for shoe with requests to householders to search their gardens and explanations given I think they would def learn their lesson

it is a 4 year old.

Could easily be nearly 6.

I think a lesson learnt by both. The person asked if she was BU , with the phone call, wanting payment, searches done, now more searches. I think she is BU. Sounds like the school do too. Age difference between both children stark - one who has just started school and one about to leave

if it would have been my 5 year old, i would have offered to replace. however, if my year 6 child had lost shoes this way, he would have gotten a major telling off for not looking after expensive belongings. the boy throwing them over the fence was unpredictable, but shoes etc get mixed up all the time in school, so if they are expensive and important -keep them on!