To believe kids are equal to adults

[DragonMummy1418]

They deserve the same treatment.
Their feelings are just as important as adults.

My parents told me that our home was a dictatorship not a democracy growing up and made me feel that my thoughts and opinions were not important or valid.
If it's something they can have a say in safely then I let my dc help make choices.

I went food shopping with my mother (who I am LC with) and 3.5 yr old DS today and she was appalled that I was letting my DS have a say in what we bought.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not letting him fill the trolly with ice cream and sweets but when it comes to a choice of which meat or which vegetables etc then I'm happy to let him pick what he likes and I know he will eat.

My mother was horrified when I said that I value DS's feelings and thoughts on the same level as my DH or hers (probably more than hers, lol).

I genuinely prefer the company of my child to a lot of adults I know.

CALF

I can assure you, social services do NOT agree with you.

@calF haha no they wouldn't because, guess what? It isn't abuse.

You clearly don't understand what the word abuse means.

Also if kids aren't equal because they're emotional and irrational, I stopped being DH's equal during pregnancy!!!!

CALF

Social workers walk into some homes in which the parents have not the capacity to cook ANYTHING and feed the kids nothing but 3 for £5 ready meals for their entire lives

Making little darling have salmon instead of swordfish is nowhere near ‘abuse’ nor would it be on the radar of things to worry about

Kids are equal in the respect that they get human rights etc

But the thoughts and emotions of children are clearly not equal to that of adults. That’s what they go through childhood for and why we have to account for their mood swings and irrational responses to stuff

CalF123
Apologies, I thought you were one of those parents who genuinely believe that rules is destroying their kids creativity and individuality or whatever nonsense they come up with.

I happen to recognise your name on a different thread and now realise you are just winding people up. Nicely done.

@ikeepaforkinmypurse

I'm not winding anyone up- what I write on this or any other thread is genuinely my view.

There's no health and safety way on earth a business can lock the doors to prevent employees to leave CalF123

Even a prison has shift workers, and don't lock the employees there!

No, I don't think children are equal.
I think their emotional and physical needs are a priority. I believe in the voice of the child and support their feelings and wishes.
It is important to listen to your child and find out what they are really trying to tell you ( a sudden tummy ache and not wanting to go to school every Tuesday you need to know explore what the message is for example)
But no they are not equal. The adult holds the power in the parent/child dynamic.

BTW My mother was also horrified about how much choice we let our kids have when they were young. She went mad at me once when DS1 was about 4 and was mid sentence and mum butted in with something. I asked her to wait until DS had finished what he was saying. She still brings it up nearly 18 years later that I let the kids do what they want!!

I value everybody equally, but it doesn't mean I thought my 4yo understood the intricacies of family budgeting as well as I did. And once they grew old enough not to need babying I wanted them to be aware that elderly people or people who had been at work all day might well be more tired than they were and possibly need the comfortable seat a little more than they did.

It's not just about what is dangerous or bad for them: it's also about the fact that everybody in the house needs consideration. If I didn't want to finish off a long and tiring day with cooking them pancakes, I wasn't obliged to do so just because there is nothing inherently bad or dangerous about pancakes. If grandma's legs ache, then grandma is entitled to the comfortable chair.

Also, having grown up in a family with very sensible people, who listened to each other and gave each other space, I don't have a problem with recognising, as well as the times you do need to listen to each other, there are also times when children just keep nagging to wind you up and that it is perfectly reasonable, if you have an otherwise good relationship, to say "no, I will not discuss this any further, you will do as you are told".

I’m sure lots of people have already said this, but isnt this about ideas around equality and equity? That equality gets confused as an ideal as it can be understand as ‘true’ equality being about treating everyone precisely the same / giving everyone exactly the same regardless of start point or different needs. Eg a disabled person isn’t allowed to sit down at an office event as everyone else will want a seat too.

But equity is about creating an environment where you acknowledge different needs and start points to get everyone to the same positive end point eg children need boundaries so cannot be treated the same as adults but their needs are just as important as adults...

They have rights as we all do.

However equal is not a word I would use for children. As they are too young to understand consequences in the long term.

If we gave children equal rights to adults then you would have to consider:
Alcohol, driving , sex, choice in education, food consumption/junk food, going out day or night alone.
So many things that have to be monitored for their well being.

So equal no
Have rights yes of course but limited for appropriate age ranges.

Agree with you Calf on many points....I too never have, and never would, ‘force feed’ my children anything. In my opinion, if you’ve reached the point where you have to force feed your child - then you’ve already failed
In saying that, my kids eat everything and anything 😂 - and we all sit down to one dish at meal times - however cooking for me is a holistic experience...and I cook what I know my family love to eat

I explained wheny child was quite small that if she asked I would explain why we were doing things but that sometimes itwould be because I said so because I was the grown up and so I was the one making grownup decisions.
Now she is a teen and I still mostly make meal decisions,she can request but if it is something we don't normally have she is expected to help.I don't get that many requests.
A teen is a bit like a toddler,often self centered and with overwhelming new feeling that they cannot necessarily express.Equality means that my feelings are of equal importance to hers. she's still learning that(and we know empathy isn't fully developed until about 24).
Often children brought up to think their feeling are paramount show little respect for adults but also find it hard to keep friends and relationships.

It depends what you mean by "force feeding". If you put a tube down their throat like a goose raised for foie gras, I don't think anyone has ever suggested that it is not abuse.

If you tell your kids to eat their food and stop moaning, then that's parenting!

But children being taught that their feelings, thoughts, wishes are paramount aren't being raised as an equal, they're being raised as superior our more important.

Being equal means who ever needs the chair most gets it, be that Granny cos she's and tired or Eliza because she's 2, she's been at nursery all day and she's tired or Mommy because she's 42 weeks pregnant and her cankles have cankles

I think kids feelings are super important and I respect them and listen to them but they're not 'in charge' and I raise my lo to respect adults and what they have to say because they have the maturity to keep them safe.

CalF - I would agree that force feeding a child anything, whether they liked it or not, would be abusive.
But that isn't at all what anyone here has said.
Putting something on their plate occasionally, even if they say they don't like it, isn't force feeding. Force feeding conjures up images of physical violence and I don't think anyone here would condone that. But sometimes, offer children something they say they don't want and they will surprise you - it might help to widen their tastes. If they really don't want it, they can leave it.
My children can ask for meals they really like. Sometimes I will oblige, sometimes not.
If I've been at work all day, if they've asked for something that takes ages to prepare, then no. They won't get it. They'll get what I have time to cook. Social services will really not be interested in that.
The other issue is that the things one likes, the other often doesn't. I am not going to cook three or four meals a day to cater to each whim. So there will be nights they have to eat something they are not massively keen on, because that's family life. There are things I know each detests, so I try to avoid those meals, or have easy fall back options. (Youngest hates cheese sauce, eldest loves it, I either do mac and cheese when youngest is eating elsewhere or have a pot of pre-made tomato sauce I can use instead) but I'm not doing that every single meal time. I have little enough time as it is.

Your language is so extreme, which isn't helpful.
I'll say it again. My kids are valued, loved and feel very secure. But they are not my equals. They are my world, and they know it. But they also know that what I say goes. If I say they will wear a coat in winter, they will. If I say they will put their seatbelts on, they will. If I say they will eat a decent dinner and not just sweets, they will. It doesn't mean no choice. But the choice is within parameters and therefore they are not equals. And I've managed to do all this without force feeding them...ever...

Luisa - I would love to cook what my family love to eat.
Unfortunately it varies from family member to family member. One doesn't like potato. Another doesn't like cheese sauce. Even ice cream isn't a given - one doesn't like it.
One won't eat peas. The other won't eat cauliflower or beans.
About the only meal where everyone is happy is roast chicken with broc and carrots. Followed by pancakes.
I'm not doing that every bloody night.

Also, being equal means that sometimes we cook the food that Eliza likes and sometimes we cook the food that mummy likes. Otherwise, that's hardly being equal.

What I did when mine were little was, everybody (including me) was allowed to have three foods that would never be served, at least not without a viable alternative, but apart from that, a varied range of meals would be served and you would just have to stock up on the boiled spuds or the carrots if you really couldn't eat the mains. Everybody helped themselves to food from an early age, so there wasn't that much waste.

I never made a fuss if one didn't eat their peas or whatever: they'd just have to get their vitamins from next meal's veg.

What NOBODY was allowed to do was moan or whine or complain to the cook.

I think calf should get an award for the number of times she has said salmon on this thread. What do you have against salmon calf eh?

Kids are equal and their feelings are just as valid.
However they have a lesser understanding of what is acceptable to do for example, I would like to blow all my money on a round the world cruise when DH gets paid on Friday but I can’t cause bills need to be paid. My son would like to go to McDonald’s for dinner every day. Neither of us can do whatever we want to do, however I know why. And try to speak to my son like an adult and explain to him why he also can’t do whatever he wants all the time.
OP you sound like a wonderful mum.

I genuinely believe children's emotions and welfare are actually far more important than adults rather than equal to because they are still developing and vulnerable .
Their emotional well-being takes precedence over mine . We aren't equal - I've had my childhood and it's their turn to be nurtured and protected now .
It doesn't mean they get an equal share in most decision making processes as active participants as this is not developmentally appropriate but all family decisions will always consider their welfare as utmost priority so they are involved albeit inadvertently.

They should not have the same treatment. They should be allowed to make age appropriate choices ranging from none at birth to complete free choice in adulthood.

It is for parents to decide what is appropriate. Some take a more authoritarian approach than others but YABU to talk in absolute terms.

I don't know if your title and actually what you do are the same thing.

Surely it's just normal to say (usually as part of a running commentary) "do you think we should get the red apples or green ones today?" Would you like ham or chicken for your sandwiches tomorrow? Shall we pick a dessert for Saturday? Chocolate or lemon do you think?"

Allowing input and contribution to decisions isn't he same as giving them the same consideration as an adult.